1
00:00:51,430 --> 00:00:23,160
[Music]

2
00:00:56,069 --> 00:00:53,270
hi everyone welcome to the show this is

3
00:00:57,990 --> 00:00:56,079
martin willis your host and for all of

4
00:00:59,670 --> 00:00:58,000
those out there who celebrate christmas

5
00:01:02,069 --> 00:00:59,680
it's coming up in a few days merry

6
00:01:03,910 --> 00:01:02,079
christmas to you all

7
00:01:05,910 --> 00:01:03,920
and uh we are running a show next week

8
00:01:07,990 --> 00:01:05,920
too someone asked me if i'm running

9
00:01:10,070 --> 00:01:08,000
christmas and new year's

10
00:01:12,390 --> 00:01:10,080
week and yes to that we're running both

11
00:01:13,750 --> 00:01:12,400
weeks and hero our guest tonight is

12
00:01:15,990 --> 00:01:13,760
jonathan

13
00:01:17,190 --> 00:01:16,000
dover he's a veteran law enforcement

14
00:01:19,510 --> 00:01:17,200
officer

15
00:01:20,630 --> 00:01:19,520
he was also a navajo nation

16
00:01:21,510 --> 00:01:20,640
ranger

17
00:01:22,870 --> 00:01:21,520
and

18
00:01:26,070 --> 00:01:22,880
he did a lot of paranormal

19
00:01:27,670 --> 00:01:26,080
investigations in the last many years

20
00:01:29,990 --> 00:01:27,680
that involved all kinds of weird

21
00:01:33,270 --> 00:01:30,000
phenomenon so we may touch on some of

22
00:01:35,749 --> 00:01:33,280
those besides our usual topic of ufos

23
00:01:37,830 --> 00:01:35,759
speaking of other topics uh we will be

24
00:01:40,630 --> 00:01:37,840
running the everything else show

25
00:01:42,310 --> 00:01:40,640
randomly so if you'd like to

26
00:01:43,990 --> 00:01:42,320
find out when those shows are going to

27
00:01:46,069 --> 00:01:44,000
pop up they're going to be on youtube

28
00:01:47,350 --> 00:01:46,079
only so you want to subscribe to this

29
00:01:49,429 --> 00:01:47,360
channel and click the little

30
00:01:50,870 --> 00:01:49,439
notification button that's really the

31
00:01:52,069 --> 00:01:50,880
only way you're going to know about

32
00:01:57,429 --> 00:01:52,079
those

33
00:01:59,749 --> 00:01:57,439
on varying and top varying topics uh

34
00:02:01,190 --> 00:01:59,759
maybe some paranormal but all different

35
00:02:03,270 --> 00:02:01,200
types of topics

36
00:02:04,789 --> 00:02:03,280
just uh conversations about

37
00:02:07,190 --> 00:02:04,799
things that i personally find

38
00:02:08,869 --> 00:02:07,200
interesting you may not but anyway if

39
00:02:10,630 --> 00:02:08,879
you want to again if you want to uh

40
00:02:13,430 --> 00:02:10,640
subscribe and click the notification

41
00:02:14,710 --> 00:02:13,440
bell you'll get those notices so we had

42
00:02:16,790 --> 00:02:14,720
trouble with our guest that's why we're

43
00:02:19,510 --> 00:02:16,800
a couple minutes late we had trouble uh

44
00:02:21,350 --> 00:02:19,520
getting him on video and audio so he's

45
00:02:22,630 --> 00:02:21,360
gonna be on the phone the entire

46
00:02:24,550 --> 00:02:22,640
time tonight

47
00:02:26,470 --> 00:02:24,560
with us that means that we will not be

48
00:02:28,229 --> 00:02:26,480
able to take calls unfortunately

49
00:02:30,710 --> 00:02:28,239
actually i do have a way to do that

50
00:02:32,710 --> 00:02:30,720
myself i got myself an extra number so i

51
00:02:34,229 --> 00:02:32,720
may try to do that tonight

52
00:02:36,229 --> 00:02:34,239
if possible if a lot of people are

53
00:02:38,150 --> 00:02:36,239
putting in the chat that they'd like to

54
00:02:40,390 --> 00:02:38,160
talk to him and ask him a question if

55
00:02:42,309 --> 00:02:40,400
you are going to ask a question in chat

56
00:02:44,229 --> 00:02:42,319
if you would put it in all caps so i do

57
00:02:46,070 --> 00:02:44,239
not miss it if it's an interesting

58
00:02:48,229 --> 00:02:46,080
question and the timing is right i will

59
00:02:50,869 --> 00:02:48,239
ask those questions you post

60
00:02:52,550 --> 00:02:50,879
uh our blog this week uh by charles lear

61
00:02:54,070 --> 00:02:52,560
i got to meet charles a couple days ago

62
00:02:57,270 --> 00:02:54,080
it was a lot of fun down in new york

63
00:03:00,149 --> 00:02:57,280
city and uh the blog that he wrote he

64
00:03:02,149 --> 00:03:00,159
wrote this week is a ufo and bigfoot

65
00:03:05,030 --> 00:03:02,159
like creatures in pennsylvania a lot of

66
00:03:07,750 --> 00:03:05,040
this has to do with uh past guests stan

67
00:03:09,750 --> 00:03:07,760
gordon who's been at it uh this

68
00:03:11,990 --> 00:03:09,760
investigating since he was young very

69
00:03:15,110 --> 00:03:12,000
young a very nice guy he's been on the

70
00:03:16,830 --> 00:03:15,120
show several times great blog so check

71
00:03:18,790 --> 00:03:16,840
that out over at

72
00:03:20,630 --> 00:03:18,800
podcastufo.com and while you're there if

73
00:03:22,470 --> 00:03:20,640
you'd like to support the show you'll

74
00:03:25,430 --> 00:03:22,480
see the link that says support the show

75
00:03:27,910 --> 00:03:25,440
how about that and that's on patreon for

76
00:03:29,589 --> 00:03:27,920
two or more dollars a month and we do

77
00:03:32,869 --> 00:03:29,599
appreciate every everyone that listens

78
00:03:34,550 --> 00:03:32,879
to the show and uh we do also appreciate

79
00:03:37,190 --> 00:03:34,560
all our supporters thanks so much we

80
00:03:39,830 --> 00:03:37,200
couldn't do this show without you

81
00:03:41,990 --> 00:03:39,840
so uh we are going to jump right in

82
00:03:43,509 --> 00:03:42,000
again thank you all for listening and i

83
00:03:45,509 --> 00:03:43,519
hope you have a wonderful christmas if

84
00:03:48,149 --> 00:03:45,519
you celebrate christmas have a wonderful

85
00:03:49,750 --> 00:03:48,159
safe and a great time and here we go

86
00:03:52,229 --> 00:03:49,760
with our guest jonathan welcome to the

87
00:03:55,910 --> 00:03:54,070
thank you there you are

88
00:03:58,630 --> 00:03:55,920
i almost panicked again because you were

89
00:04:01,030 --> 00:03:58,640
uh you were just not there earlier but

90
00:04:02,789 --> 00:04:01,040
um thank you so much for for uh coming

91
00:04:05,110 --> 00:04:02,799
on the show it was a pleasure to meet

92
00:04:08,390 --> 00:04:05,120
you out in arizona

93
00:04:10,470 --> 00:04:08,400
and uh so if you would uh can you i mean

94
00:04:12,710 --> 00:04:10,480
i think it's really fascinating that you

95
00:04:14,470 --> 00:04:12,720
probably had no idea that you were gonna

96
00:04:15,830 --> 00:04:14,480
get involved in these weird type of

97
00:04:17,830 --> 00:04:15,840
situations

98
00:04:21,110 --> 00:04:17,840
when you first got into law enforcement

99
00:04:26,550 --> 00:04:24,710
i i had no idea we uh although

100
00:04:28,230 --> 00:04:26,560
throughout my whole career

101
00:04:29,510 --> 00:04:28,240
like a lot of other law enforcement

102
00:04:33,430 --> 00:04:29,520
officers

103
00:04:36,390 --> 00:04:33,440
experienced cases of high strangeness

104
00:04:38,390 --> 00:04:36,400
ufo sightings and the like but back in

105
00:04:40,950 --> 00:04:38,400
those days you didn't say anything about

106
00:04:42,870 --> 00:04:40,960
it you just kept it to yourself because

107
00:04:44,790 --> 00:04:42,880
you didn't want to be ridiculed by the

108
00:04:47,510 --> 00:04:44,800
other officers

109
00:04:48,710 --> 00:04:47,520
so i'm actually not the only one but i

110
00:04:53,189 --> 00:04:48,720
am one of the

111
00:04:55,350 --> 00:04:53,199
one of the only two on the navajo that

112
00:04:56,469 --> 00:04:55,360
we were assigned to investigate these

113
00:04:59,270 --> 00:04:56,479
cases

114
00:05:04,150 --> 00:04:59,280
so in in other words to put it uh in an

115
00:05:10,710 --> 00:05:06,710
now um from what i understand from what

116
00:05:13,270 --> 00:05:10,720
i've heard you say in the past is that

117
00:05:15,270 --> 00:05:13,280
uh regular police officers were sent out

118
00:05:17,909 --> 00:05:15,280
to investigate and they sort of there

119
00:05:19,749 --> 00:05:17,919
was sort of a ridicule thing going on

120
00:05:21,990 --> 00:05:19,759
um is that is that basically what

121
00:05:24,390 --> 00:05:22,000
happened

122
00:05:25,510 --> 00:05:24,400
well uh they wouldn't ridicule people

123
00:05:28,790 --> 00:05:25,520
outright

124
00:05:30,629 --> 00:05:28,800
but the cases were taken lightly and you

125
00:05:32,790 --> 00:05:30,639
have to understand that

126
00:05:35,590 --> 00:05:32,800
if somebody gets punched in the nose

127
00:05:37,830 --> 00:05:35,600
that takes precedence over

128
00:05:39,510 --> 00:05:37,840
uh there's a bigfoot in my backyard

129
00:05:40,950 --> 00:05:39,520
that's scaring me

130
00:05:43,189 --> 00:05:40,960
and so

131
00:05:45,189 --> 00:05:43,199
and they're not they're not equipped for

132
00:05:47,110 --> 00:05:45,199
that kind of investigation

133
00:05:49,670 --> 00:05:47,120
uh there's no

134
00:05:51,590 --> 00:05:49,680
uh within police agencies they have

135
00:05:53,670 --> 00:05:51,600
number systems

136
00:05:55,430 --> 00:05:53,680
so you're going to get a maybe a four

137
00:05:56,469 --> 00:05:55,440
digit number to describe what you're

138
00:05:57,670 --> 00:05:56,479
doing

139
00:06:00,070 --> 00:05:57,680
and for

140
00:06:02,150 --> 00:06:00,080
bigfoot cases we would describe them in

141
00:06:04,790 --> 00:06:02,160
the the number series

142
00:06:05,749 --> 00:06:04,800
as a wild animal complaint

143
00:06:07,590 --> 00:06:05,759
ah

144
00:06:10,790 --> 00:06:07,600
wow because you just didn't have any

145
00:06:13,270 --> 00:06:10,800
place to file it basically right

146
00:06:15,670 --> 00:06:13,280
that's right and that's how the majority

147
00:06:16,870 --> 00:06:15,680
of agencies actually across the united

148
00:06:18,710 --> 00:06:16,880
states are

149
00:06:20,390 --> 00:06:18,720
there there's nothing in their system

150
00:06:22,950 --> 00:06:20,400
that allows for

151
00:06:23,830 --> 00:06:22,960
uh paranormal investigations

152
00:06:26,070 --> 00:06:23,840
right

153
00:06:27,830 --> 00:06:26,080
so before we get into all this just

154
00:06:29,909 --> 00:06:27,840
another

155
00:06:31,430 --> 00:06:29,919
uh thought you know comes to mind is the

156
00:06:35,830 --> 00:06:31,440
oral traditions

157
00:06:38,230 --> 00:06:35,840
of the navajo um the navajo people um

158
00:06:40,629 --> 00:06:38,240
over the years i i heard you also say

159
00:06:42,870 --> 00:06:40,639
that they had these oral histories were

160
00:06:45,350 --> 00:06:42,880
discounted because they were not written

161
00:06:48,230 --> 00:06:45,360
histories however the oral histories

162
00:06:50,070 --> 00:06:48,240
were very very carefully carried down

163
00:06:51,510 --> 00:06:50,080
from one generation to the next

164
00:06:52,790 --> 00:06:51,520
generation

165
00:06:55,189 --> 00:06:52,800
and that

166
00:06:56,629 --> 00:06:55,199
every word had to be spoken

167
00:06:59,510 --> 00:06:56,639
exactly

168
00:07:03,430 --> 00:06:59,520
the same or similar without any uh

169
00:07:05,510 --> 00:07:03,440
mix-ups is that is that how that worked

170
00:07:06,710 --> 00:07:05,520
uh yeah it's it's called an oral

171
00:07:10,710 --> 00:07:06,720
tradition

172
00:07:12,469 --> 00:07:10,720
and the navajo are very very

173
00:07:15,350 --> 00:07:12,479
rigid about

174
00:07:16,710 --> 00:07:15,360
maintaining those type of traditions so

175
00:07:19,270 --> 00:07:16,720
when we talk

176
00:07:20,390 --> 00:07:19,280
in navajo history about what happened in

177
00:07:22,390 --> 00:07:20,400
the past

178
00:07:24,230 --> 00:07:22,400
you're not allowed to embellish it and

179
00:07:25,589 --> 00:07:24,240
you're not allowed to leave anything out

180
00:07:27,589 --> 00:07:25,599
you have to

181
00:07:29,510 --> 00:07:27,599
say it exactly the way it was told to

182
00:07:35,670 --> 00:07:29,520
you

183
00:07:38,629 --> 00:07:35,680
necessarily navajo but i've heard of

184
00:07:39,990 --> 00:07:38,639
other people term as sky people was that

185
00:07:43,510 --> 00:07:40,000
ever part of

186
00:07:49,270 --> 00:07:46,230
uh navajo does have a definite

187
00:07:50,150 --> 00:07:49,280
connection to what we would loosely

188
00:07:55,189 --> 00:07:50,160
uh

189
00:07:58,869 --> 00:07:55,199
long tradition in fact

190
00:08:01,110 --> 00:07:58,879
uh a lot of the uh yevichy dancers that

191
00:08:02,230 --> 00:08:01,120
you see are depictions

192
00:08:04,469 --> 00:08:02,240
of

193
00:08:05,990 --> 00:08:04,479
beings that have come to the earth

194
00:08:10,469 --> 00:08:06,000
to

195
00:08:14,390 --> 00:08:12,950
in what i do i do a lot of appraising

196
00:08:16,150 --> 00:08:14,400
and for

197
00:08:19,670 --> 00:08:16,160
you know any basically any personal

198
00:08:21,749 --> 00:08:19,680
property and a lot of the hopi um things

199
00:08:25,670 --> 00:08:21,759
are very interesting to me the kachina

200
00:08:28,150 --> 00:08:25,680
dolls and figures um and is i don't know

201
00:08:29,749 --> 00:08:28,160
what what the depictions are exactly and

202
00:08:31,510 --> 00:08:29,759
what the stories are that go with them

203
00:08:34,230 --> 00:08:31,520
but there's certainly some very

204
00:08:38,310 --> 00:08:34,240
interesting uh creatures that they

205
00:08:44,389 --> 00:08:41,190
uh yeah the most of the kachinas that

206
00:08:46,230 --> 00:08:44,399
you're referring to are depictions of of

207
00:08:49,110 --> 00:08:46,240
gods that have come to earth

208
00:08:50,150 --> 00:08:49,120
to uh meet with the hopi in in the hopi

209
00:08:51,670 --> 00:08:50,160
culture

210
00:08:54,870 --> 00:08:51,680
and um

211
00:08:56,870 --> 00:08:54,880
it seems like this is very universal

212
00:08:58,310 --> 00:08:56,880
amongst all indian tribes across the

213
00:09:01,509 --> 00:08:58,320
united states

214
00:09:05,350 --> 00:09:01,519
uh today you're talking greater than 500

215
00:09:08,790 --> 00:09:05,360
around 570 recognized indian tribes

216
00:09:11,430 --> 00:09:08,800
uh just in the united states alone

217
00:09:13,750 --> 00:09:11,440
wow that's amazing and what um do you

218
00:09:14,790 --> 00:09:13,760
know what that is down from over the

219
00:09:18,630 --> 00:09:14,800
years

220
00:09:21,110 --> 00:09:18,640
of you know for instance any any idea of

221
00:09:25,509 --> 00:09:21,120
say when this country was

222
00:09:27,430 --> 00:09:25,519
kind of taken over by uh from england um

223
00:09:28,550 --> 00:09:27,440
you know when we landed here let's say

224
00:09:32,070 --> 00:09:28,560
200

225
00:09:34,630 --> 00:09:32,080
30 40 50 years ago uh um when we found

226
00:09:36,389 --> 00:09:34,640
it as a country i should say uh when

227
00:09:37,910 --> 00:09:36,399
when we uh the declaration of

228
00:09:39,430 --> 00:09:37,920
independence we were separate from

229
00:09:42,470 --> 00:09:39,440
england um

230
00:09:45,110 --> 00:09:42,480
is that way down from them or were there

231
00:09:46,230 --> 00:09:45,120
about that same many

232
00:09:48,470 --> 00:09:46,240
do you know

233
00:09:51,509 --> 00:09:48,480
uh they don't know the exact numbers but

234
00:09:54,150 --> 00:09:51,519
there's estimates that run anywhere from

235
00:09:55,110 --> 00:09:54,160
three thousand to five thousand separate

236
00:09:57,829 --> 00:09:55,120
tribes

237
00:10:00,310 --> 00:09:57,839
that were in the united states

238
00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:00,320
and uh wow and what's

239
00:10:05,590 --> 00:10:02,880
and and from a native perspective

240
00:10:08,310 --> 00:10:05,600
uh one of the reasons that we are not

241
00:10:09,829 --> 00:10:08,320
very distrustful of the government

242
00:10:13,110 --> 00:10:09,839
uh well we are actually really

243
00:10:16,150 --> 00:10:13,120
distrustful is that um

244
00:10:18,470 --> 00:10:16,160
over the period that columbus first came

245
00:10:20,710 --> 00:10:18,480
and they started writing treaties there

246
00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:20,720
have been over 6 000

247
00:10:25,670 --> 00:10:23,680
written treaties with indian tribes

248
00:10:26,630 --> 00:10:25,680
in the united states alone

249
00:10:29,670 --> 00:10:26,640
and

250
00:10:33,110 --> 00:10:29,680
out of all those 6 000 plus treaties not

251
00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:33,120
one was ever kept that's really sad

252
00:10:38,069 --> 00:10:34,720
that's really sad

253
00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:38,079
um yes i know uh i where i i grew up

254
00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:40,240
mostly in the state of maine

255
00:10:44,389 --> 00:10:43,120
and there was something some type of

256
00:10:46,870 --> 00:10:44,399
land grant

257
00:10:48,710 --> 00:10:46,880
that was found in the last i don't know

258
00:10:51,190 --> 00:10:48,720
40 or 50 years ago

259
00:10:52,790 --> 00:10:51,200
where basically all all of northern

260
00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:52,800
maine belonged to

261
00:10:55,750 --> 00:10:54,880
uh i think the mick max or some tribe up

262
00:11:01,750 --> 00:10:55,760
there

263
00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:01,760
a monetary exchange

264
00:11:05,509 --> 00:11:03,600
for that once again

265
00:11:09,030 --> 00:11:05,519
all these uh you know

266
00:11:11,430 --> 00:11:09,040
uh kind of miniscule monetary

267
00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:11,440
things to make up have never really uh

268
00:11:15,829 --> 00:11:12,959
really accounted for

269
00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:15,839
what what happened for sure

270
00:11:17,590 --> 00:11:16,800
yeah

271
00:11:23,030 --> 00:11:17,600
right

272
00:11:24,069 --> 00:11:23,040
the oral traditions

273
00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:24,079
um

274
00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:26,160
you say the sky gods

275
00:11:29,590 --> 00:11:27,200
um

276
00:11:31,750 --> 00:11:29,600
is it in was that also as far as you

277
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:31,760
know was that other besides navajo was

278
00:11:36,150 --> 00:11:34,160
it the other kachina dolls was all the

279
00:11:38,790 --> 00:11:36,160
same thing i mean that that's kind of

280
00:11:40,829 --> 00:11:38,800
interesting if it was tribe to tribe a

281
00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:40,839
very similar

282
00:11:46,150 --> 00:11:44,320
thing uh yeah they there were um

283
00:11:49,030 --> 00:11:46,160
a lot of similarities

284
00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:49,040
in the tribes and in fact the navajos

285
00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:52,000
and the hopies uh often intermarried and

286
00:11:56,310 --> 00:11:54,160
spoke their their uh

287
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:56,320
they spoke different languages but they

288
00:12:00,069 --> 00:11:57,360
were

289
00:12:01,750 --> 00:12:00,079
bilingual in those languages the hopies

290
00:12:03,190 --> 00:12:01,760
could speak navajo and navajos could

291
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:03,200
speak hopi

292
00:12:08,790 --> 00:12:05,279
oh how about that

293
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:08,800
so uh i know that you have had a lot of

294
00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:10,480
really strange things happen i don't

295
00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:12,800
know if you want to jump right in but i

296
00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:15,279
i would like to find out um basically

297
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:18,000
what happened in the first the first

298
00:12:25,509 --> 00:12:21,279
call that you ever got from anyone where

299
00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:28,949
well the the first call that i got

300
00:12:33,509 --> 00:12:31,519
that me and stan worked on stan was my

301
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:33,519
buddy during the time and and he's the

302
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:40,710
we received a call

303
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:42,480
uh well

304
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:44,800
let me back up here the first call that

305
00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:49,360
was taken was involving a bigfoot case

306
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:52,800
and this was up in the uh shiprock area

307
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:54,720
shiprock new mexico

308
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:57,920
and it's along the san juan river there

309
00:13:01,030 --> 00:13:00,240
in a place called bloomfield

310
00:13:02,629 --> 00:13:01,040
and

311
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:02,639
there's a lot of farming communities

312
00:13:05,350 --> 00:13:03,600
there

313
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:05,360
the

314
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:08,880
and

315
00:13:14,949 --> 00:13:11,839
we had over 30 witnesses that came

316
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:14,959
forward to the local police department

317
00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:15,839
and

318
00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:17,920
said there's a bigfoot

319
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:19,920
in this area we've seen it we've heard

320
00:13:21,590 --> 00:13:20,639
it

321
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:21,600
and

322
00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:24,240
the police lieutenant there laughed at

323
00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:25,040
them

324
00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:27,440
and actually put in the papers i wonder

325
00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:30,160
how much these people have had to drink

326
00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:31,600
and

327
00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:33,440
so they didn't want anything to do with

328
00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:34,880
the police department

329
00:13:38,710 --> 00:13:36,880
they contacted

330
00:13:43,110 --> 00:13:38,720
the navajo rangers

331
00:13:45,509 --> 00:13:43,120
and we sent a six-person crew up there

332
00:13:47,189 --> 00:13:45,519
with night vision equipment ford lumke

333
00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:47,199
infrared systems

334
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:50,000
and we stayed there for three days and

335
00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:51,839
two nights

336
00:13:56,150 --> 00:13:53,760
scouring the area

337
00:13:58,150 --> 00:13:56,160
on stakeout at night

338
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:58,160
tracking and

339
00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:01,279
interviewing witnesses

340
00:14:05,910 --> 00:14:03,360
wow so you really took that seriously

341
00:14:07,829 --> 00:14:05,920
right away and and what what what

342
00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:07,839
happened what was what were the results

343
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:12,310
we

344
00:14:15,030 --> 00:14:13,199
found

345
00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:15,040
foot track evidence

346
00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:18,320
we found evidence of in one case the the

347
00:14:22,629 --> 00:14:19,760
thing had stepped

348
00:14:23,509 --> 00:14:22,639
over a five strand barbed wire fence

349
00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:23,519
which

350
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:26,320
sits about maybe five feet tall

351
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:29,519
and it just stepped over it

352
00:14:38,150 --> 00:14:36,150
so we had we found hair evidence caught

353
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:38,160
in the barbed wire

354
00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:41,360
the foot track evidence was about

355
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:43,360
18 to 20 inches

356
00:14:46,069 --> 00:14:44,720
in length

357
00:14:46,870 --> 00:14:46,079
of the foot

358
00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:46,880
um

359
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:49,760
the stride distances were five foot from

360
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:51,360
heel to heel

361
00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:55,199
uh for me to do a five foot stride i

362
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:57,120
would have to do the splits

363
00:15:01,910 --> 00:15:00,720
yeah right and i can't do the split

364
00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:01,920
yeah

365
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:03,120
and what about

366
00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:04,560
the imperfections

367
00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:09,590
oh so we we tracked this thing through

368
00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:13,600
the brush and um we even found places

369
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:14,480
where

370
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:18,240
there were marshy boggy areas that were

371
00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:19,680
had a

372
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:21,920
maybe a half inch of water on the on the

373
00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:22,720
top

374
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:24,320
and you could see where this thing had

375
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:27,199
picked up big logs maybe 30 inches in

376
00:15:31,829 --> 00:15:29,680
diameter and just picked them pick these

377
00:15:32,949 --> 00:15:31,839
waterlogged things up and tossed them

378
00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:32,959
aside

379
00:15:38,389 --> 00:15:35,920
and the uh the guy that was with us that

380
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:38,399
knew more about bigfoot

381
00:15:43,189 --> 00:15:40,560
actually told us that it was looking for

382
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:43,199
grubs underneath the logs or some kind

383
00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:46,399
of food food source

384
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:49,120
wow and what about the impressions were

385
00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:51,040
they deep enough or

386
00:15:54,069 --> 00:15:52,160
where it would look like it would have

387
00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:54,079
the weight of whatever would be that

388
00:16:01,829 --> 00:15:59,269
uh yeah yeah it did

389
00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:01,839
um and a lot of them were in sandy areas

390
00:16:06,430 --> 00:16:04,560
but we tracked it we got into the brush

391
00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:06,440
where the brush was so thick the

392
00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:09,680
tamarack uh russian olives and stuff

393
00:16:13,030 --> 00:16:11,360
that uh

394
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:13,040
you couldn't even get through there on

395
00:16:16,629 --> 00:16:14,560
your hands and your knees

396
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:16,639
and yet this thing just pushed through

397
00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:19,199
that stuff and and the material just

398
00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:22,959
came back and closed it up again so

399
00:16:27,509 --> 00:16:24,959
did would you say that whatever this

400
00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:27,519
thing was it it like like walked through

401
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:30,560
the area and that was it it didn't there

402
00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:33,600
was no signs of it being or no um

403
00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:36,320
accounts of witnesses that said this

404
00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:43,030
uh we've had reports off and on

405
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:44,959
throughout the years

406
00:16:48,829 --> 00:16:47,759
in fact one just recently

407
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:48,839
that

408
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,720
uh a group of bigfoot were coming into a

409
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:54,240
field

410
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:56,880
they were had corn planted there

411
00:17:01,910 --> 00:17:00,079
and the family uh would leave piles of

412
00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:01,920
corn

413
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:05,120
at the edge near the river for the

414
00:17:09,750 --> 00:17:07,600
bigfoot to come and and eat it

415
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:09,760
kind of like an offering

416
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:12,160
they said that after a while

417
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:15,199
uh these bigfoot were chased away by a

418
00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:17,280
uh what they called an alpha bigfoot a

419
00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:20,000
male and

420
00:17:25,189 --> 00:17:22,799
chased these bigfoot away and then

421
00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:25,199
proceeded to kill two of their horses

422
00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:27,839
that were in the corral

423
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:30,160
they ended up selling the third horse

424
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:31,520
because

425
00:17:34,789 --> 00:17:33,120
they were afraid that that one was gonna

426
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:34,799
get killed too

427
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:36,960
and uh since then they haven't seen

428
00:17:42,390 --> 00:17:40,240
anything more on it but uh they they

429
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:42,400
showed us the the area

430
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:44,480
uh we're we're over there

431
00:17:48,870 --> 00:17:47,120
with the film crew looking at all that

432
00:17:50,789 --> 00:17:48,880
stuff

433
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:50,799
wow wow and

434
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:53,520
when the horses were killed

435
00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:01,029
they had scratch marks uh all large

436
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:03,440
scratch marks from what the

437
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:05,280
witnesses described

438
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:07,840
and uh they said that it was it was

439
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:09,440
pretty horrific

440
00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:12,080
uh they said early on when the other

441
00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:15,280
bigfoots were there they were friendly

442
00:18:17,590 --> 00:18:16,240
and

443
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:17,600
they actually

444
00:18:21,990 --> 00:18:19,919
went to the horses and believe it or not

445
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:22,000
they said that they would take the hair

446
00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:23,280
from the mane

447
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:25,840
and braid it

448
00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:26,640
and

449
00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:28,640
i've never heard of that

450
00:18:33,990 --> 00:18:32,240
so um that that was interesting

451
00:18:34,870 --> 00:18:34,000
yeah another another

452
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:34,880
another

453
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:36,640
strange mystery

454
00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:39,280
in this whole thing so but there were

455
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:40,720
um you know one of the reasons you're

456
00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:43,600
here is because there's also ufo

457
00:18:47,990 --> 00:18:46,320
happenings that you were involved in and

458
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:48,000
and i've heard you you talk about them

459
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:50,880
before um but i want to continue on if

460
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:52,480
that's okay so

461
00:18:57,190 --> 00:18:55,200
uh with this case in particular i mean

462
00:18:59,909 --> 00:18:57,200
you really can't solve anything like

463
00:19:02,390 --> 00:18:59,919
this because you can't you never found

464
00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:02,400
this creature but did you get the

465
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:04,640
the first samples that you found in the

466
00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:11,510
uh we the the bigfoot expert that was

467
00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:12,559
with us

468
00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:15,440
sent it to a lab uh he never disclosed

469
00:19:19,350 --> 00:19:17,200
where the lab was for

470
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:19,360
obvious reasons that the lab would be

471
00:19:25,110 --> 00:19:22,160
inuited with uh with calls asking them

472
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:25,120
their opinions and stuff so he sent it

473
00:19:29,830 --> 00:19:27,200
to a lab for analysis

474
00:19:31,029 --> 00:19:29,840
uh later on he told us that the analysis

475
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:31,039
came back

476
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:35,280
and all it said was unknown carnivore

477
00:19:39,510 --> 00:19:37,600
unknown carnivore

478
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:39,520
boy you know a lot of times you've

479
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:42,080
you've hear that people speculate

480
00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:43,520
whatever their

481
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:46,000
bigfoot are that they're not they're

482
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:48,720
they're more um you know omnivore but

483
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:50,080
they're saying this was uh they thought

484
00:19:55,830 --> 00:19:53,039
it was carnivore that's pretty scary

485
00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:55,840
uh that's correct yeah yeah i mean you

486
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:58,320
look at the ape family they're all

487
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:00,480
omnivores you know they're they're not

488
00:20:06,390 --> 00:20:02,880
not not one is a carnivore

489
00:20:07,909 --> 00:20:06,400
wow bizarre but any anyway um yeah you

490
00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:07,919
know i have been i've always had mixed

491
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:09,679
feelings about

492
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:12,240
bigfoot and i don't know why i just it

493
00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:14,960
seems like some things you know like i i

494
00:20:19,669 --> 00:20:16,559
know people are seeing ufos there's so

495
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:19,679
much material um

496
00:20:25,669 --> 00:20:22,400
evidence and you know backed up

497
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:25,679
data to to corroborate that but when it

498
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:27,840
comes to bigfoot we

499
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:29,679
seems like there's only one really

500
00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:32,400
interesting film the patterson

501
00:20:37,430 --> 00:20:35,120
gimbal film whatever it's called i i

502
00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:37,440
can't think of the name of it yeah um

503
00:20:42,630 --> 00:20:40,240
but you really don't it just seems like

504
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:42,640
at this time if people are still seeing

505
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:45,280
bigfoot we'd really get some conclusive

506
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:47,919
i know i sound like a ufo debunker in a

507
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:48,799
way

508
00:20:54,149 --> 00:20:51,120
but it seems like we'd see some video

509
00:20:56,549 --> 00:20:54,159
out there at this point in time of a

510
00:20:58,470 --> 00:20:56,559
bigfoot by now it just seems

511
00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:58,480
strange that we don't have anything that

512
00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:01,120
i know of unless you know different

513
00:21:06,870 --> 00:21:04,799
well well me and stan have investigated

514
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:06,880
a lot of bigfoot cases

515
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:08,320
and um

516
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:11,679
we've actually tracked bigfoot

517
00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:13,440
both me and stan are

518
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:16,240
what you would consider combat trackers

519
00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:17,280
uh we

520
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:18,159
track

521
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:19,520
man

522
00:21:24,230 --> 00:21:21,919
uh when in the back country when

523
00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:24,240
somebody commits a crime and they're on

524
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:26,400
the run uh we're the ones that go after

525
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:29,600
them and and you you learn how to track

526
00:21:38,230 --> 00:21:35,909
to this day i do not

527
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:38,240
do any deer hunting

528
00:21:45,669 --> 00:21:41,440
no small game hunting because man is by

529
00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:45,679
far the most interesting thing to hunt

530
00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:46,799
so

531
00:21:51,909 --> 00:21:49,760
what happens is we've tracked it

532
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:51,919
for for miles

533
00:21:56,149 --> 00:21:54,880
and the tracks disappear in trackable

534
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:56,159
ground

535
00:21:59,830 --> 00:21:58,080
so there's there's earth all around

536
00:22:00,870 --> 00:21:59,840
there if he would have taken another

537
00:22:03,270 --> 00:22:00,880
step

538
00:22:06,070 --> 00:22:03,280
he would have left a track

539
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:06,080
and the tracks just suddenly stop

540
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:09,120
as if he just got jerked into the sky

541
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:12,240
we backtrack it the other direction

542
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:15,200
and to see where he's coming from

543
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:16,480
and

544
00:22:19,909 --> 00:22:18,640
we run into the same thing the tracks

545
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:19,919
appear

546
00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:22,400
in trackable ground

547
00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:23,360
and

548
00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:25,520
it's just like he was just dropped there

549
00:22:28,549 --> 00:22:26,640
suddenly

550
00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:28,559
so

551
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:31,120
we have a theory that we've uh

552
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:33,360
we've come up with over a lot of years

553
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:35,840
of doing paranormal cases

554
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:37,840
uh of course we're just like everybody

555
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:40,720
else we're looking at

556
00:22:44,390 --> 00:22:42,559
things that connect

557
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:44,400
and the one thing that connects all of

558
00:22:50,390 --> 00:22:46,559
these cases hauntings

559
00:22:55,350 --> 00:22:50,400
ufos bigfoot even the navajo skinwalker

560
00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:55,360
is that this idea of multi-dimensions

561
00:23:00,470 --> 00:22:56,640
and

562
00:23:06,070 --> 00:23:00,480
being a pan-dimensional

563
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:08,230
even up in the pacific northwest they

564
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:09,840
had a gentleman that

565
00:23:13,990 --> 00:23:11,760
was looking at a bigfoot that was

566
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:14,000
crouched down near a tree and he said

567
00:23:19,909 --> 00:23:16,320
that this thing just vanished right in

568
00:23:23,909 --> 00:23:22,950
and then you have the skinwalker ranch

569
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:23,919
um

570
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:25,360
incident where

571
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:27,520
a bigfoot was seen

572
00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:29,039
a hole appeared

573
00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:31,840
yes big time and there was a blue sky

574
00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:32,640
and

575
00:23:37,510 --> 00:23:34,799
came crawling through fell on the ground

576
00:23:40,070 --> 00:23:37,520
stood up and walked off that's right

577
00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:40,080
so great and that was that was witnessed

578
00:23:43,029 --> 00:23:42,000
by several people

579
00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:43,039
science

580
00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:44,240
scientists

581
00:23:48,830 --> 00:23:46,480
uh one of them uh that was just sitting

582
00:23:52,470 --> 00:23:48,840
there and observing that

583
00:23:53,909 --> 00:23:52,480
bizarre right right so we think that

584
00:23:55,990 --> 00:23:53,919
these things are

585
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:56,000
appearing they're popping in and out of

586
00:24:00,149 --> 00:23:57,200
our dimension

587
00:24:02,789 --> 00:24:00,159
whether by accident or on purpose we

588
00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:02,799
have no idea and we we really can't

589
00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:04,960
speculate that direction

590
00:24:09,269 --> 00:24:07,360
but um

591
00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:09,279
if you know we have this idea of

592
00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:11,840
dimensions as these walled structures

593
00:24:16,549 --> 00:24:14,400
there's a wall here and a wall on the

594
00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:16,559
other side and

595
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:18,240
you know we're in our dimension and the

596
00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:20,400
other dimensions are next to us

597
00:24:24,549 --> 00:24:22,640
um but these dimensions are actually

598
00:24:25,510 --> 00:24:24,559
overlapping

599
00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:25,520
and

600
00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:29,360
to me they're more like uh clouds that

601
00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:30,960
are intermixed

602
00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:32,799
and every now and then something can

603
00:24:35,669 --> 00:24:34,799
actually pop through

604
00:24:38,149 --> 00:24:35,679
and

605
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:38,159
appear in our dimension uh

606
00:24:43,990 --> 00:24:42,000
we had a haunting case where coins were

607
00:24:44,710 --> 00:24:44,000
what they call a porting

608
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:44,720
or

609
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:46,880
appearing in our dimension and falling

610
00:24:52,549 --> 00:24:48,159
to the floor

611
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:52,559
uh stan did a case where 65 coins over

612
00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:55,200
two days appeared

613
00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:57,440
fell to the floor flew across the room

614
00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:59,200
hit people in the back

615
00:25:03,430 --> 00:25:01,120
and when they landed he had to

616
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:03,440
photograph everyone and collect it as

617
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:04,559
evidence

618
00:25:15,430 --> 00:25:06,000
and

619
00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:15,440
which is a statistical impossibility

620
00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:17,520
is that uh are these like an american

621
00:25:21,590 --> 00:25:19,520
coins international coins what were

622
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:21,600
these

623
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:25,440
were uh

624
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:29,200
pennies nickels dimes quarters uh

625
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:31,919
14 of them were wheat cent pennies oh

626
00:25:35,350 --> 00:25:34,080
yeah uh

627
00:25:36,310 --> 00:25:35,360
none of them

628
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:36,320
uh

629
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:37,760
you know i i need to go back through

630
00:25:43,669 --> 00:25:41,200
those wheat cents maybe there's a 1943

631
00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:43,679
um you know copper

632
00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:45,600
right when there were there were tank

633
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:48,240
pennies then yeah

634
00:25:53,430 --> 00:25:50,640
yeah yeah they call them steel and steel

635
00:25:54,830 --> 00:25:53,440
pennies but they're zinc yeah

636
00:25:59,669 --> 00:25:54,840
wow

637
00:26:02,230 --> 00:25:59,679
um and stan had one that was a a two

638
00:26:05,269 --> 00:26:02,240
taiwanese two u.n coin

639
00:26:07,110 --> 00:26:05,279
that fell in his kitchen

640
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:07,120
that is so bizarre

641
00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:09,520
yeah uh one of the things about

642
00:26:13,830 --> 00:26:10,880
when

643
00:26:15,990 --> 00:26:13,840
people talk about that theory and i i

644
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:16,000
hear it often you know when it comes to

645
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:19,039
the ufo topic the possibility of the

646
00:26:22,710 --> 00:26:20,480
dimensions

647
00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:22,720
and but the thought i always have is

648
00:26:25,990 --> 00:26:23,520
well

649
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:26,000
if that's the case are we going into and

650
00:26:29,669 --> 00:26:28,080
you know can we possibly

651
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:29,679
slip into another

652
00:26:32,950 --> 00:26:31,840
dimension if they can slip into in and

653
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:32,960
out of ours

654
00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:35,600
and something that seems primitive like

655
00:26:38,470 --> 00:26:36,799
a

656
00:26:40,470 --> 00:26:38,480
bigfoot not

657
00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:40,480
not knowingly highly intelligent i'm not

658
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:42,000
sure i mean i've never had a

659
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:43,840
conversation with one but

660
00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:46,799
anyway just the fact that uh you know i

661
00:26:50,630 --> 00:26:48,480
mean it's not like a machine or

662
00:26:52,789 --> 00:26:50,640
something like that or how it could

663
00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:52,799
dip into this dimension

664
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:54,720
so it's it's another you know big

665
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:57,520
curiosity could we actually go into

666
00:27:01,669 --> 00:26:59,039
another dimension

667
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:01,679
and if so how and how would something

668
00:27:07,350 --> 00:27:03,840
get back how would something come back

669
00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:07,360
if a bigfoot pops in comes through that

670
00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:09,200
that portal or whatever it came through

671
00:27:13,669 --> 00:27:11,120
on skinwalker ranch

672
00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:13,679
uh that was witnessed um how does it get

673
00:27:17,029 --> 00:27:15,360
back to where it came from you know all

674
00:27:18,710 --> 00:27:17,039
that stuff and how did this thing when

675
00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:18,720
you were tracking it how did it appear

676
00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:20,559
and then how did it disappear in another

677
00:27:23,190 --> 00:27:21,760
location

678
00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:23,200
it's strange

679
00:27:28,389 --> 00:27:25,520
yeah yeah

680
00:27:30,389 --> 00:27:28,399
so no answer is just speculation really

681
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:30,399
right

682
00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:32,320
well yeah but we're gonna you know no

683
00:27:35,909 --> 00:27:34,480
matter what we're going to try to

684
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:35,919
you know

685
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:39,120
put it in a box that we can understand

686
00:27:41,669 --> 00:27:40,880
and that's that's what we do you know

687
00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:41,679
that's

688
00:27:50,549 --> 00:27:47,200
to find why it happened

689
00:27:53,269 --> 00:27:50,559
not only why but how where when who

690
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:53,279
uh you try to find out the answers

691
00:27:57,909 --> 00:27:56,080
and so this is something that you know

692
00:27:59,190 --> 00:27:57,919
you think about all the time

693
00:28:01,430 --> 00:27:59,200
wake up in the middle of the night at

694
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:01,440
two in the morning and go yeah oh how

695
00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:03,360
about that you know that's a possibility

696
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:04,159
too

697
00:28:09,269 --> 00:28:06,960
so you know you do

698
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:09,279
just like any criminal investigator

699
00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:11,600
um you you think about these things a

700
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:12,960
lot

701
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:16,000
i bet i bet you do and

702
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:17,919
like you just said when you can't sleep

703
00:28:21,269 --> 00:28:19,760
you think about things in the middle of

704
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:21,279
the night but

705
00:28:25,269 --> 00:28:23,440
what about when you speak with other

706
00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:25,279
people that may help you with the

707
00:28:30,070 --> 00:28:28,240
investigation i mean is it

708
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:30,080
i'm just going back again to the time

709
00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:32,080
when you're you're going through

710
00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:33,679
these uh

711
00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:35,360
looking at these tracks and you see them

712
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:37,039
go into nothing and

713
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:38,720
then appear in another when you

714
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:40,480
backtrack it see it appear all of a

715
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:41,440
sudden

716
00:28:45,990 --> 00:28:43,520
you know what is your first thought i

717
00:28:48,789 --> 00:28:46,000
mean how can how can this happen i mean

718
00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:48,799
that that must be something that boggles

719
00:28:52,070 --> 00:28:50,720
people when you're in a group

720
00:28:56,470 --> 00:28:52,080
and you're looking at something like

721
00:29:01,110 --> 00:28:58,549
well we um

722
00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:01,120
you know we just accept it we

723
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,840
we look around we we do what what they

724
00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:05,679
call cutting for sign

725
00:29:10,389 --> 00:29:08,000
uh which is usually working

726
00:29:11,669 --> 00:29:10,399
from the last track in a spiral

727
00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:11,679
uh of

728
00:29:17,110 --> 00:29:15,200
widening circles to see if you can see

729
00:29:19,269 --> 00:29:17,120
maybe

730
00:29:21,269 --> 00:29:19,279
it jumped and you're just not seeing the

731
00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:21,279
next track uh

732
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:23,360
maybe it's rocky and you have to go

733
00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:25,440
further to pick up the next track where

734
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:27,600
it went

735
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:29,440
or maybe there's something a pebble in

736
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:31,840
the ground that's pushed down

737
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:33,520
you're looking for all kinds of little

738
00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:34,480
things

739
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:35,360
and

740
00:29:39,430 --> 00:29:38,000
when you don't find that next track

741
00:29:41,269 --> 00:29:39,440
then it gets

742
00:29:43,110 --> 00:29:41,279
weird

743
00:29:45,190 --> 00:29:43,120
the other thing that we've noticed over

744
00:29:48,149 --> 00:29:45,200
a lot of years of doing this

745
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:48,159
is that any time we had

746
00:29:54,149 --> 00:29:50,880
reports of bigfoot

747
00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:54,159
we had corresponding reports of ufo

748
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:56,080
sightings that were increasing at the

749
00:30:01,269 --> 00:29:57,520
same time

750
00:30:03,190 --> 00:30:01,279
so we saw correlations between

751
00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:03,200
the sightings of bigfoot and ufo

752
00:30:07,669 --> 00:30:05,760
sightings in the same areas

753
00:30:09,430 --> 00:30:07,679
yeah i've heard that

754
00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:09,440
there's there's one

755
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:11,279
there's one incredible story that a

756
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:14,159
witness told one time where she saw

757
00:30:18,549 --> 00:30:15,840
this one is

758
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:18,559
really uh uh one that's hard to hard to

759
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:19,520
believe

760
00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:22,799
but it was like a large orange orb

761
00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:24,080
and it kind of popped and all of a

762
00:30:28,149 --> 00:30:26,080
sudden there was a bigfoot there

763
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:28,159
that's another i shouldn't be laughing

764
00:30:33,269 --> 00:30:30,720
that's another uh one that i've heard a

765
00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:33,279
witness talk about a question that comes

766
00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:36,399
up from mary grace is how do how

767
00:30:41,029 --> 00:30:38,480
do you investigate these things what

768
00:30:42,789 --> 00:30:41,039
avenue do you go down to

769
00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:42,799
and totally investigate something like

770
00:30:47,909 --> 00:30:46,710
okay uh

771
00:30:51,510 --> 00:30:47,919
the

772
00:30:52,950 --> 00:30:51,520
usually

773
00:30:55,350 --> 00:30:52,960
what would happen is we'd get it through

774
00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:55,360
our dispatch they would call in they

775
00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:57,600
talked to our dispatcher they'd assign

776
00:31:05,590 --> 00:31:03,669
what happens in our case is we would

777
00:31:09,190 --> 00:31:05,600
make arrangements to go

778
00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:09,200
speak directly with that person

779
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:11,120
in the days of covet of course you're

780
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:13,360
doing more and more phone interviews

781
00:31:16,830 --> 00:31:14,960
but

782
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:16,840
we don't have good communication on the

783
00:31:22,389 --> 00:31:20,159
reservation in fact right now i'm i'm 50

784
00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:22,399
miles away from home in flagstaff

785
00:31:26,950 --> 00:31:25,200
arizona talking to you because i get

786
00:31:28,789 --> 00:31:26,960
good cell connection

787
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:28,799
but apparently not good enough to get on

788
00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:29,919
the video

789
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:31,679
so

790
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:33,360
i appreciate that really that was very

791
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:36,080
nice to do that

792
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:39,120
what what we do is we

793
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:40,960
interview the person now

794
00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:44,960
we start by looking at body language at

795
00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:47,039
micro expressions

796
00:31:51,269 --> 00:31:48,640
everything that you're doing in a

797
00:31:53,350 --> 00:31:51,279
criminal case we're

798
00:31:55,350 --> 00:31:53,360
replicating

799
00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:55,360
we're going to be asking you a lot of

800
00:31:58,549 --> 00:31:57,440
embarrassing questions

801
00:32:01,669 --> 00:31:58,559
such as

802
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:01,679
do you use recreational drugs if you do

803
00:32:05,350 --> 00:32:04,080
when was the last time you used some

804
00:32:07,590 --> 00:32:05,360
have you

805
00:32:09,269 --> 00:32:07,600
do you use prescription medication and

806
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:09,279
if so what kind of prescription

807
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:11,440
medication and have you taken any

808
00:32:15,909 --> 00:32:13,120
recently

809
00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:15,919
you drink alcohol if you have when was

810
00:32:18,310 --> 00:32:17,440
your last drink

811
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:18,320
we're

812
00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:21,039
going through this progression

813
00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:23,200
of seeing where you are

814
00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:25,200
in your mental state

815
00:32:29,669 --> 00:32:26,480
and

816
00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:29,679
anything that could uh possibly

817
00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:31,679
impede your perception

818
00:32:35,350 --> 00:32:32,480
of

819
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:35,360
what you may have saw

820
00:32:37,590 --> 00:32:36,480
from there

821
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:37,600
uh

822
00:32:43,990 --> 00:32:40,320
we'll ask you to relate your story

823
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:44,000
and we generally will not comment

824
00:32:49,190 --> 00:32:46,559
uh one person does the interview

825
00:32:50,950 --> 00:32:49,200
the other person if they uh if stan has

826
00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:50,960
questions and i'm talking

827
00:32:55,509 --> 00:32:53,200
uh he'll slip me a note

828
00:32:56,549 --> 00:32:55,519
uh saying ask this or how about this or

829
00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:56,559
whatever

830
00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:58,159
so um

831
00:33:02,470 --> 00:33:00,240
and if we can we were some of the first

832
00:33:05,190 --> 00:33:02,480
officers to have body cameras

833
00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:05,200
uh that were recording in video uh with

834
00:33:11,110 --> 00:33:07,440
a lot of our interviews

835
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:11,120
so uh this was back in the in the early

836
00:33:14,310 --> 00:33:12,559
2000s

837
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:14,320
before any departments were carrying

838
00:33:17,669 --> 00:33:15,039
them

839
00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:19,190
so you know

840
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:21,120
i mean we were buying them off of ebay

841
00:33:25,350 --> 00:33:22,399
so they were

842
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:25,360
not very good quality but you know we're

843
00:33:27,990 --> 00:33:26,880
more interested in getting the story

844
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:28,000
correct

845
00:33:31,909 --> 00:33:30,080
um

846
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:31,919
after that comes what they call

847
00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:34,480
ancillary subjective ancillary we would

848
00:33:40,389 --> 00:33:37,600
go back and ask them can you describe

849
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:40,399
in more detail about this or about that

850
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:42,480
or you said this can you elaborate on

851
00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:45,120
this you know you go back and forth and

852
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:47,200
you're trying to

853
00:33:51,190 --> 00:33:49,120
be you know

854
00:33:53,509 --> 00:33:51,200
get as much detail about the

855
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:53,519
investigations you can you're looking

856
00:33:57,509 --> 00:33:54,799
for evidence

857
00:34:00,630 --> 00:33:57,519
so anything that can be marked down or

858
00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:00,640
tagged as evidence is very important

859
00:34:05,590 --> 00:34:03,200
and we treat it just as any criminal

860
00:34:07,669 --> 00:34:05,600
case it has to be

861
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:07,679
able to be

862
00:34:11,669 --> 00:34:10,879
presented in a court of law

863
00:34:14,710 --> 00:34:11,679
and

864
00:34:16,710 --> 00:34:14,720
accepted by the court

865
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:16,720
so that's how we go about doing this

866
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:19,440
investigation we

867
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:22,399
pretty much stay real thorough on them

868
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:25,520
uh and then each case is uh

869
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:27,760
put in a uh

870
00:34:32,310 --> 00:34:29,520
their reports are done

871
00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:32,320
and they're put in a computerized file

872
00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:34,960
and these files are locked up only the

873
00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:36,879
director of the department had access to

874
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:38,800
them

875
00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:43,829
so are they always put in as inc

876
00:34:47,669 --> 00:34:45,200
inconclusive

877
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:47,679
on these or did you ever have can you

878
00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:49,760
talk about any of them that you were

879
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:51,760
ever able to figure out

880
00:34:55,829 --> 00:34:54,399
you know what happened and and it had

881
00:34:57,190 --> 00:34:55,839
nothing to do with what you thought it

882
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:57,200
was

883
00:35:01,430 --> 00:34:59,760
um like oh sure yeah

884
00:35:02,790 --> 00:35:01,440
so let's talk a little bit about that

885
00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:02,800
yeah

886
00:35:13,349 --> 00:35:12,000
lights that come up over the horizon

887
00:35:16,069 --> 00:35:13,359
and they're

888
00:35:18,390 --> 00:35:16,079
they're blinking and and

889
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:18,400
moving around and and

890
00:35:22,069 --> 00:35:20,720
every evening at the same time in this

891
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:22,079
direction

892
00:35:27,829 --> 00:35:24,560
and stan went out there

893
00:35:30,870 --> 00:35:27,839
and he set up a tripod he put his uh he

894
00:35:32,069 --> 00:35:30,880
had a night vision equipment

895
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:32,079
he had a

896
00:35:36,069 --> 00:35:34,160
quad sheet of the area

897
00:35:37,109 --> 00:35:36,079
and a compass

898
00:35:39,750 --> 00:35:37,119
and

899
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:39,760
what he did is uh we we you know he

900
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:41,359
waited until dark

901
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:42,720
and then sure enough here come the

902
00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:44,880
lights you know they all started rising

903
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:46,400
from the horizon

904
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:48,880
and uh they started blinking

905
00:35:55,030 --> 00:35:52,240
off and on you know in random deals

906
00:35:58,950 --> 00:35:55,040
and uh scan shot an azimuth with the

907
00:36:01,109 --> 00:35:58,960
compass he marked the azimuth on the map

908
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:01,119
and it turned out that what the guy was

909
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:03,839
seeing was a temperature inversion

910
00:36:07,990 --> 00:36:06,160
where you have a layer of hot air in a

911
00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:08,000
layer of cold air

912
00:36:13,589 --> 00:36:10,880
and what was happening is the lights

913
00:36:15,990 --> 00:36:13,599
over the next ridge

914
00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:16,000
of a small community

915
00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:18,400
where because of that inversion were

916
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:20,960
rising up like a mirage

917
00:36:25,109 --> 00:36:22,240
and

918
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:25,119
because these lights were seen behind

919
00:36:29,750 --> 00:36:27,040
these uh

920
00:36:32,310 --> 00:36:29,760
pinyon juniper trees and the wind was

921
00:36:33,990 --> 00:36:32,320
blowing uh the trees were blowing and

922
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:34,000
moving so it looked like the lights were

923
00:36:39,910 --> 00:36:35,680
blinking off and on

924
00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:39,920
yeah and so that was one case that uh

925
00:36:43,829 --> 00:36:43,119
that we we solved because of that

926
00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:43,839
yeah

927
00:36:49,510 --> 00:36:46,560
another case we we had

928
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,870
was that

929
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:56,870
we had we had a a lady that came back

930
00:37:02,069 --> 00:37:00,640
uh to her to her home

931
00:37:05,270 --> 00:37:02,079
and um

932
00:37:06,069 --> 00:37:05,280
she had lived uh in other states all her

933
00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:06,079
life

934
00:37:11,030 --> 00:37:08,560
but her mother had passed away

935
00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:11,040
and uh she

936
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:13,520
was having visitations by

937
00:37:18,150 --> 00:37:16,400
uh what she determined were skin walkers

938
00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:18,160
that were um

939
00:37:23,750 --> 00:37:20,560
and she was trying to fix up this hogan

940
00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:23,760
this little house uh eight-sided house

941
00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:26,560
that the navajos traditionally live in

942
00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:28,880
she's uh replacing the windows the

943
00:37:33,670 --> 00:37:30,880
door's not there just the roof is on the

944
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:33,680
place and it's right on the ridgeline

945
00:37:38,069 --> 00:37:36,560
near a border town

946
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:38,079
she called the

947
00:37:41,829 --> 00:37:39,359
county

948
00:37:45,030 --> 00:37:41,839
she called the state police she called

949
00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:45,040
the city she called navajo police nobody

950
00:37:48,310 --> 00:37:46,640
wanted to take her

951
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:48,320
her call

952
00:37:54,790 --> 00:37:52,640
because she sounded like a crazy person

953
00:37:57,430 --> 00:37:54,800
so she called us and me and stan went

954
00:38:01,030 --> 00:37:57,440
over there and we started tracking

955
00:38:03,829 --> 00:38:01,040
we came up with at least six individuals

956
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:03,839
uh now they were leaving little bundles

957
00:38:08,310 --> 00:38:06,560
of feathers and uh leather you know

958
00:38:09,109 --> 00:38:08,320
buckskin wrap stuff

959
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:09,119
uh

960
00:38:12,069 --> 00:38:11,200
little bundles here and there

961
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:12,079
uh

962
00:38:15,990 --> 00:38:13,839
making it look like something was trying

963
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:16,000
to curse her and drive her out

964
00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:17,440
what we determine

965
00:38:21,430 --> 00:38:19,920
uh we found a trail going down the back

966
00:38:23,349 --> 00:38:21,440
side of the ridge

967
00:38:25,030 --> 00:38:23,359
and you could see where all six of them

968
00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:25,040
were standing around talking with each

969
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:26,240
other

970
00:38:30,630 --> 00:38:28,079
and what we determined

971
00:38:32,470 --> 00:38:30,640
was that these were the local drunks

972
00:38:34,870 --> 00:38:32,480
that had been using the mother's

973
00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:34,880
abandoned house for years

974
00:38:41,109 --> 00:38:38,240
as a crash pad to drink in town and then

975
00:38:43,109 --> 00:38:41,119
sleep it off at that location

976
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:43,119
when she moved back and started fixing

977
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:45,040
up the house they tried to scare her

978
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:48,480
away so we told her that these are just

979
00:38:51,430 --> 00:38:50,000
the local drunks they're trying to

980
00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:51,440
they're navajo drunk so they're trying

981
00:38:55,030 --> 00:38:52,720
to scare you

982
00:38:57,190 --> 00:38:55,040
but you know don't don't worry about it

983
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:57,200
there they can't hurt you

984
00:38:59,750 --> 00:38:58,320
and

985
00:39:01,750 --> 00:38:59,760
a month later

986
00:39:03,349 --> 00:39:01,760
our dispatcher got a phone call from the

987
00:39:04,150 --> 00:39:03,359
same lady

988
00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:04,160
and

989
00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:06,320
she was in tears she was crying on the

990
00:39:09,670 --> 00:39:07,359
phone

991
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:09,680
and she said that she called just

992
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:11,680
because

993
00:39:17,589 --> 00:39:14,400
we had helped her and her house was all

994
00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:17,599
fixed and she has no more issues

995
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:19,680
and she just wanted to call us and thank

996
00:39:23,109 --> 00:39:21,119
us

997
00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:23,119
wow isn't that nice well

998
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:24,079
um

999
00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:27,359
yeah so i imagine you always have to you

1000
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:29,599
know like anyone else especially with

1001
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:32,800
your background you have to look for

1002
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:34,720
you have to follow the facts and just

1003
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:36,640
wherever they lead

1004
00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:38,640
and uh i'm sure there are a lot of

1005
00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:40,400
people that are just very scared at

1006
00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:48,390
we found out early on that

1007
00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:51,280
especially in hauntings if you allow

1008
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:53,359
fear to come in

1009
00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:56,800
you actually lend it energy to manifest

1010
00:40:01,589 --> 00:40:00,000
more sure and um

1011
00:40:03,589 --> 00:40:01,599
so we would approach these things just

1012
00:40:05,829 --> 00:40:03,599
like going into

1013
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:05,839
a gunfight where you know bullets are

1014
00:40:09,510 --> 00:40:07,599
flying and things like that we've been

1015
00:40:11,750 --> 00:40:09,520
shot at numerous times

1016
00:40:13,910 --> 00:40:11,760
and you do what you have to do and then

1017
00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:13,920
later on you take a deep breath

1018
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:16,000
and you go wow you know

1019
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:18,000
now for both me and stan when we do

1020
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:24,550
smoke ourselves afterwards

1021
00:40:30,790 --> 00:40:27,760
and and uh do our prayers and and you

1022
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:30,800
know for cleansing and protection

1023
00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:33,040
now have you or stan

1024
00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:34,400
actually

1025
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:40,790
uh both of us have

1026
00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:43,440
uh for for ufos yeah

1027
00:40:53,109 --> 00:40:47,359
can you talk yeah talk about that

1028
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:53,990
and

1029
00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:55,280
i had just

1030
00:40:59,430 --> 00:40:57,040
left the tribe at the time and i was

1031
00:41:01,670 --> 00:40:59,440
working for the city of winslow arizona

1032
00:41:04,230 --> 00:41:01,680
police department and i was doing

1033
00:41:07,510 --> 00:41:04,240
graveyards

1034
00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:07,520
i was heading home with my uh

1035
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:09,200
my then wife

1036
00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:10,640
um

1037
00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:11,760
and

1038
00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:13,520
we're on a dirt road on the middle of

1039
00:41:16,390 --> 00:41:14,880
nowhere

1040
00:41:18,309 --> 00:41:16,400
um

1041
00:41:20,510 --> 00:41:18,319
and i see

1042
00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:20,520
what looks like a large

1043
00:41:25,829 --> 00:41:22,880
cigar-shaped craft

1044
00:41:27,349 --> 00:41:25,839
uh flying from east to west toward

1045
00:41:29,589 --> 00:41:27,359
flagstaff

1046
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:29,599
uh out in the middle of the desert

1047
00:41:33,910 --> 00:41:31,280
it's about uh

1048
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:33,920
less than a quarter mile away from me

1049
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:36,640
and what i notice is that it has a

1050
00:41:40,950 --> 00:41:38,880
bright light in the front of it

1051
00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:40,960
that's there's no marker lights on the

1052
00:41:44,309 --> 00:41:42,880
whole thing but there's a bright light

1053
00:41:46,630 --> 00:41:44,319
shining down

1054
00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:46,640
almost like a pencil beam

1055
00:41:51,190 --> 00:41:48,960
uh that's

1056
00:41:54,309 --> 00:41:51,200
how would you say coherent light

1057
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:54,319
it's uh it's fine it's rigidly defined

1058
00:41:58,710 --> 00:41:55,920
along its edges

1059
00:42:00,790 --> 00:41:58,720
and um all the way to the ground

1060
00:42:02,870 --> 00:42:00,800
it's going about 15

1061
00:42:06,470 --> 00:42:02,880
20 miles an hour tops

1062
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:07,670
now

1063
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:10,960
in those days x-files was real big on tv

1064
00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:12,640
so i remember getting out of i was

1065
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:14,640
driving a volkswagen bug

1066
00:42:17,829 --> 00:42:15,760
and

1067
00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:17,839
i stopped the car turned off the engine

1068
00:42:23,030 --> 00:42:20,960
i looked at my time on my watch

1069
00:42:26,470 --> 00:42:23,040
and marked the time

1070
00:42:28,390 --> 00:42:26,480
and i got out and watched this thing

1071
00:42:30,150 --> 00:42:28,400
uh i think if it would have stopped i

1072
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:30,160
would have walked up to it and asked if

1073
00:42:34,950 --> 00:42:32,160
i could get a ride

1074
00:42:37,589 --> 00:42:34,960
um i was so curious

1075
00:42:40,069 --> 00:42:37,599
and uh meanwhile my ex-wife was

1076
00:42:42,230 --> 00:42:40,079
screaming bloody murder get get in the

1077
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:42,240
car get in the car you know

1078
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:44,240
and um

1079
00:42:49,109 --> 00:42:46,079
i just i just watched it until it went

1080
00:42:51,349 --> 00:42:49,119
out of sight and this thing was had a

1081
00:42:54,390 --> 00:42:51,359
really really heavy noise

1082
00:42:58,069 --> 00:42:54,400
it was this heavy uh metallic

1083
00:42:59,910 --> 00:42:58,079
rum rum rum rum like that just just

1084
00:43:01,829 --> 00:42:59,920
really loud

1085
00:43:04,870 --> 00:43:01,839
and um

1086
00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:04,880
but but other than that it just drifted

1087
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:07,200
uh toward toward the west

1088
00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:09,359
uh toward a bunch of cinder cones that

1089
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:11,200
are around flagstaff

1090
00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:13,119
and

1091
00:43:18,309 --> 00:43:15,520
i got back in the car started it back up

1092
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:18,319
we went back to the house we lived at

1093
00:43:22,710 --> 00:43:20,160
the time out on the res so there's no

1094
00:43:24,550 --> 00:43:22,720
electricity there's no running water

1095
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:24,560
and

1096
00:43:28,390 --> 00:43:26,640
as we pulled up to the house

1097
00:43:30,390 --> 00:43:28,400
a shooting star

1098
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:30,400
flew across the sky

1099
00:43:36,230 --> 00:43:33,359
and i remember she said she says they're

1100
00:43:38,230 --> 00:43:36,240
coming back and she

1101
00:43:39,510 --> 00:43:38,240
the door flew open and she was inside

1102
00:43:40,470 --> 00:43:39,520
the house

1103
00:43:44,630 --> 00:43:40,480
and

1104
00:43:48,790 --> 00:43:47,030
years later i asked her

1105
00:43:50,309 --> 00:43:48,800
you know i ran into her and i said hey

1106
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:50,319
do you remember that

1107
00:43:53,829 --> 00:43:51,680
what happened

1108
00:43:58,470 --> 00:43:53,839
and she looked me dead in the eye and

1109
00:44:02,550 --> 00:44:00,150
that's not enough i'm sure you probably

1110
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:02,560
know that's not an uncommon

1111
00:44:07,910 --> 00:44:05,520
theme when it comes to this topic

1112
00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:07,920
a lot of people don't are just don't

1113
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:09,839
want to talk about it or or it never

1114
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:13,349
yeah

1115
00:44:18,309 --> 00:44:16,319
so that was uh one of the first ones uh

1116
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:18,319
from then i've seen discs

1117
00:44:25,030 --> 00:44:23,520
i've seen triangles i've seen orbs

1118
00:44:27,030 --> 00:44:25,040
me and stan were together we were

1119
00:44:30,550 --> 00:44:27,040
talking about

1120
00:44:32,870 --> 00:44:30,560
a case that i had worked on near loop

1121
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:32,880
and i was pointing to a

1122
00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:35,920
cinder hill where this orb had come down

1123
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:36,640
and

1124
00:44:40,630 --> 00:44:38,400
gone along the side of this girl that

1125
00:44:41,990 --> 00:44:40,640
was driving home late at night

1126
00:44:43,589 --> 00:44:42,000
and um

1127
00:44:46,069 --> 00:44:43,599
and then it shot in front of her and

1128
00:44:48,390 --> 00:44:46,079
then made a right angle turn

1129
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:48,400
uh went up in the sky and shot across

1130
00:44:53,349 --> 00:44:51,520
the sky like a shooting star

1131
00:44:55,829 --> 00:44:53,359
and

1132
00:44:57,910 --> 00:44:55,839
i was pointing to the area where this

1133
00:44:59,270 --> 00:44:57,920
thing had come down the hill

1134
00:45:02,710 --> 00:44:59,280
just then

1135
00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:02,720
a round white ball of light appeared

1136
00:45:06,550 --> 00:45:05,119
a little bigger than a basketball

1137
00:45:08,790 --> 00:45:06,560
and uh

1138
00:45:10,630 --> 00:45:08,800
it was you could see a cone of light

1139
00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:10,640
shining down to the ground

1140
00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:12,640
and you could see the ground illuminated

1141
00:45:15,510 --> 00:45:14,000
underneath it

1142
00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:15,520
and then it just

1143
00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:17,760
you know we looked at each other and it

1144
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:20,560
just as i had pointed at it

1145
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:23,760
it showed up and then it blinked out

1146
00:45:27,990 --> 00:45:25,839
and man we slammed on the brakes turned

1147
00:45:30,150 --> 00:45:28,000
around went back over there we were out

1148
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:30,160
with our flashlights looking around

1149
00:45:33,589 --> 00:45:32,240
because it was just maybe about 50 feet

1150
00:45:36,150 --> 00:45:33,599
off the road

1151
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:36,160
and we didn't see anything

1152
00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:38,800
wow amazing saw that one

1153
00:45:42,309 --> 00:45:40,960
you know you see when i noticed i was

1154
00:45:43,510 --> 00:45:42,319
when i was out there i don't know what

1155
00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:43,520
is it

1156
00:45:47,510 --> 00:45:45,440
four or five weeks ago whenever it was i

1157
00:45:49,270 --> 00:45:47,520
was out there i noticed

1158
00:45:50,630 --> 00:45:49,280
wow you can really see the sky

1159
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:50,640
especially if you get away from the

1160
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:53,520
light pollution it's just such wide open

1161
00:45:57,109 --> 00:45:55,119
country and

1162
00:45:59,430 --> 00:45:57,119
beautiful sky so

1163
00:46:01,109 --> 00:45:59,440
that is probably one of the reasons that

1164
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:01,119
arizona has

1165
00:46:04,710 --> 00:46:03,599
some of the highest amount of ufo

1166
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:04,720
sightings

1167
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:06,880
you know in this country

1168
00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:08,800
i think it's right up there third

1169
00:46:11,349 --> 00:46:10,480
a lot of times california usually is

1170
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:11,359
first

1171
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:13,200
but i think arizona's usually second or

1172
00:46:24,390 --> 00:46:20,870
and so yeah it's uh

1173
00:46:28,150 --> 00:46:24,400
what type of what type of land

1174
00:46:30,150 --> 00:46:28,160
yeah okay i was gonna say on navajo

1175
00:46:33,349 --> 00:46:30,160
we even have less light pollution

1176
00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:33,359
because there's there's communities

1177
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:35,520
that outside of the communities i mean

1178
00:46:38,710 --> 00:46:37,119
you can look up in the sky and see the

1179
00:46:41,910 --> 00:46:38,720
milky way

1180
00:46:44,950 --> 00:46:41,920
right it's just beautiful what kind of

1181
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:44,960
land coverage does the navajo nation

1182
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:46,480
have as far as

1183
00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:48,720
um square miles

1184
00:46:52,870 --> 00:46:51,200
where you're involved

1185
00:46:56,710 --> 00:46:52,880
we're involved uh

1186
00:47:01,270 --> 00:46:56,720
we're we're i was involved there's 27

1187
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:02,710
yeah

1188
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:03,680
so

1189
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:06,480
it's a lot of land to cover

1190
00:47:11,589 --> 00:47:09,040
essentially from if you look north of

1191
00:47:13,349 --> 00:47:11,599
flagstaff all the way across to near

1192
00:47:14,710 --> 00:47:13,359
albuquerque

1193
00:47:16,069 --> 00:47:14,720
new mexico

1194
00:47:19,430 --> 00:47:16,079
and

1195
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:19,440
up north all the way to into utah

1196
00:47:24,390 --> 00:47:22,720
and up to the colorado border

1197
00:47:25,990 --> 00:47:24,400
yeah so it's it's a lot of land it'll

1198
00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:26,000
take you about five hours to drive

1199
00:47:29,829 --> 00:47:27,599
across it

1200
00:47:32,230 --> 00:47:29,839
just out of curiosity this has nothing

1201
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:32,240
to do with the topic but

1202
00:47:36,069 --> 00:47:34,240
other i just don't understand how these

1203
00:47:38,950 --> 00:47:36,079
things work

1204
00:47:40,549 --> 00:47:38,960
is the navajo nation basically under

1205
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:40,559
their own

1206
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:44,160
um governing laws or is it follow the

1207
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:45,520
states like for instance you're

1208
00:47:50,790 --> 00:47:48,160
partially in arizona you're partially in

1209
00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:50,800
new mexico um do you have to follow the

1210
00:47:54,549 --> 00:47:53,280
guidelines of that state or is it your

1211
00:47:57,270 --> 00:47:54,559
own

1212
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:57,280
conditions uh i i just don't know how

1213
00:48:01,430 --> 00:47:59,760
that works

1214
00:48:03,670 --> 00:48:01,440
well the

1215
00:48:05,109 --> 00:48:03,680
the navajo nation along with a lot of

1216
00:48:07,589 --> 00:48:05,119
other tribes

1217
00:48:10,150 --> 00:48:07,599
have a

1218
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:10,160
a sovereign government

1219
00:48:14,150 --> 00:48:11,359
yeah

1220
00:48:16,309 --> 00:48:14,160
the u.s government deals with us on a

1221
00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:16,319
state department level

1222
00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:19,680
um we are basically a country within a

1223
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:21,119
country

1224
00:48:27,670 --> 00:48:25,280
so we have our own laws that apply to uh

1225
00:48:28,710 --> 00:48:27,680
natives that live out here

1226
00:48:31,270 --> 00:48:28,720
but

1227
00:48:33,349 --> 00:48:31,280
uh in the case of anglos when i went to

1228
00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:33,359
the police academy my academy was six

1229
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:34,800
months long

1230
00:48:40,390 --> 00:48:37,760
i had to be certified in new mexico and

1231
00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:40,400
in arizona and with the federal

1232
00:48:44,390 --> 00:48:42,000
government

1233
00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:44,400
as a law enforcement officer

1234
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:46,640
and i carried a federal citation book

1235
00:48:52,710 --> 00:48:50,319
and i carried a tribal citation book

1236
00:48:54,950 --> 00:48:52,720
in the case of people

1237
00:48:57,109 --> 00:48:54,960
speeding on on navajo nation i would

1238
00:48:59,109 --> 00:48:57,119
write them a federal citation

1239
00:49:00,630 --> 00:48:59,119
under the what they call the assimilate

1240
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:00,640
of crimes act

1241
00:49:05,430 --> 00:49:03,680
and specify the state statute that they

1242
00:49:06,790 --> 00:49:05,440
broke in speeding

1243
00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:06,800
and uh

1244
00:49:13,829 --> 00:49:08,640
send the send that citation in the

1245
00:49:17,270 --> 00:49:15,510
i said wow

1246
00:49:19,910 --> 00:49:17,280
that so that can get pretty complicated

1247
00:49:24,630 --> 00:49:22,309
uh it can be um

1248
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:24,640
you know we we maintain in a lot of

1249
00:49:29,829 --> 00:49:27,280
cases you have concurrent jurisdiction

1250
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:29,839
which is the uh

1251
00:49:33,750 --> 00:49:31,520
the county officers would be

1252
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:33,760
commissioned under the navajo nation

1253
00:49:38,069 --> 00:49:36,000
and the naval nation officers would

1254
00:49:39,829 --> 00:49:38,079
commission under the county

1255
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:39,839
and uh that seemed to work out pretty

1256
00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:41,520
nicely too

1257
00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:43,760
yeah um we have just uh three minutes

1258
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:46,160
until we go into the break so if you get

1259
00:49:51,109 --> 00:49:49,200
just part way into answering my question

1260
00:49:54,309 --> 00:49:51,119
we'll continue it on the other side of

1261
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:54,319
the break but i'm gonna ask you what is

1262
00:49:59,270 --> 00:49:56,640
the strangest thing that you ever had to

1263
00:50:04,390 --> 00:49:59,280
investigate when you were doing these

1264
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:07,109
well uh the strangest thing that ever

1265
00:50:10,829 --> 00:50:08,640
happened to me and it happened to me

1266
00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:10,839
directly so it wasn't

1267
00:50:15,750 --> 00:50:12,960
investigated per se

1268
00:50:16,470 --> 00:50:15,760
okay much is just recorded

1269
00:50:19,510 --> 00:50:16,480
but

1270
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:19,520
i was on a drive to get my oil changed

1271
00:50:27,510 --> 00:50:23,430
the

1272
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:27,520
miles

1273
00:50:34,470 --> 00:50:30,559
to 264 state route to

1274
00:50:37,270 --> 00:50:34,480
tuba city that's 58 miles

1275
00:50:38,309 --> 00:50:37,280
and i made this trip once a month for

1276
00:50:39,510 --> 00:50:38,319
years

1277
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:39,520
and

1278
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:42,800
on the way over i'm driving by the

1279
00:50:46,870 --> 00:50:44,880
nebato dam

1280
00:50:49,510 --> 00:50:46,880
and i'm on a straight section of road

1281
00:50:52,309 --> 00:50:49,520
and i'm looking in front the sun's

1282
00:50:53,829 --> 00:50:52,319
it's pre-dawn the sun's just barely on

1283
00:50:55,109 --> 00:50:53,839
the other side of the horizon and it's

1284
00:50:57,670 --> 00:50:55,119
getting light

1285
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:57,680
and i looked in front of me and

1286
00:51:01,430 --> 00:50:59,760
it's it's like miles and miles of

1287
00:51:04,230 --> 00:51:01,440
straight road i look behind me in my

1288
00:51:05,829 --> 00:51:04,240
rear view mirror same thing

1289
00:51:07,990 --> 00:51:05,839
i blinked

1290
00:51:09,589 --> 00:51:08,000
when i opened my eyes i was coming to a

1291
00:51:12,549 --> 00:51:09,599
sharp turn

1292
00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:12,559
that turn was at coal mine mesa 15 miles

1293
00:51:20,829 --> 00:51:18,309
so i thought wow you know did i just

1294
00:51:23,510 --> 00:51:20,839
go to sleep and go on

1295
00:51:25,910 --> 00:51:23,520
autopilot uh when i got to the city i

1296
00:51:28,069 --> 00:51:25,920
usually have about 15 minutes to stop at

1297
00:51:30,470 --> 00:51:28,079
mcdonald's and get myself a breakfast

1298
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:30,480
cup of coffee go drive over to the fleet

1299
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:32,640
management and wait at the gate and i'll

1300
00:51:38,150 --> 00:51:36,000
be the first one in to get my oil change

1301
00:51:39,430 --> 00:51:38,160
on this particular date i stopped at the

1302
00:51:40,950 --> 00:51:39,440
mcdonald's

1303
00:51:42,230 --> 00:51:40,960
i went to

1304
00:51:43,670 --> 00:51:42,240
the uh

1305
00:51:44,710 --> 00:51:43,680
the gate

1306
00:51:51,910 --> 00:51:44,720
and

1307
00:51:54,870 --> 00:51:51,920
yep so i don't i don't know that's

1308
00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:54,880
opposite of missing time

1309
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:56,160
right

1310
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:59,200
and i mean you gain time aliens abducted

1311
00:52:04,150 --> 00:52:01,200
you you know and put you down in the

1312
00:52:04,950 --> 00:52:04,160
wrong time i even had one person tell me

1313
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:04,960
that

1314
00:52:08,790 --> 00:52:06,000
um

1315
00:52:11,589 --> 00:52:08,800
i hit the event horizon of a microscopic

1316
00:52:14,549 --> 00:52:11,599
black hole and it changed time for me

1317
00:52:16,390 --> 00:52:14,559
oh that that would work

1318
00:52:18,470 --> 00:52:16,400
well very interesting so we'll talk a

1319
00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:18,480
little bit more about um

1320
00:52:21,829 --> 00:52:20,000
we'll talk a little bit more about that

1321
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:21,839
when we come back we have to go into the

1322
00:52:24,150 --> 00:52:22,720
break

1323
00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:24,160
and i do want to

1324
00:52:28,790 --> 00:52:25,040
hear

1325
00:52:31,510 --> 00:52:28,800
this quickly uh the gentleman's name is

1326
00:52:32,710 --> 00:52:31,520
um who's who's on

1327
00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:32,720
this video that i'm going to be

1328
00:52:35,910 --> 00:52:33,680
recording

1329
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:35,920
that i am going to be posting

1330
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:37,760
his name is stuart

1331
00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:41,040
seymour and he commented he contacted me

1332
00:52:45,910 --> 00:52:43,920
and commented about a ufo sighting and

1333
00:52:48,230 --> 00:52:45,920
i'm going to have the full

1334
00:52:50,470 --> 00:52:48,240
video is going to break at midnight like

1335
00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:50,480
i did the last one with albert wayne

1336
00:52:55,589 --> 00:52:53,200
this is a one that happened

1337
00:52:57,750 --> 00:52:55,599
and just recently so we're going to go

1338
00:53:02,790 --> 00:52:57,760
into the break at kgra radio we'll be

1339
00:53:07,990 --> 00:53:05,589
all right stu uh thank you so much for

1340
00:53:11,109 --> 00:53:08,000
getting in touch with me and you just

1341
00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:13,270
yeah first of all can you

1342
00:53:17,990 --> 00:53:15,040
say where you where where are you

1343
00:53:20,470 --> 00:53:18,000
located certainly so i'm located in a

1344
00:53:22,150 --> 00:53:20,480
village called holbridge which is in

1345
00:53:24,790 --> 00:53:22,160
essex the county of essex which is

1346
00:53:27,910 --> 00:53:24,800
around about 30 miles outside of london

1347
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:27,920
down on the south east coast of the uk

1348
00:53:31,750 --> 00:53:30,000
uh-huh so yeah

1349
00:53:32,950 --> 00:53:31,760
so you were outside let's let's hear

1350
00:53:35,910 --> 00:53:32,960
what happened

1351
00:53:37,990 --> 00:53:35,920
okay so um we've got a little uh cottage

1352
00:53:41,589 --> 00:53:38,000
here small holding couple of acres

1353
00:53:43,589 --> 00:53:41,599
and it was about 9 50 and my wife was

1354
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:43,599
doing her horses in the evening and i

1355
00:53:46,790 --> 00:53:44,720
thought i'd go out and give her a hand

1356
00:53:48,549 --> 00:53:46,800
like i usually do doing the waters and

1357
00:53:49,430 --> 00:53:48,559
she was doing all the haze

1358
00:53:50,950 --> 00:53:49,440
and

1359
00:53:52,390 --> 00:53:50,960
when i'm out there i'm fascinated by the

1360
00:53:55,510 --> 00:53:52,400
sky anyway so i'm always looking up and

1361
00:53:57,670 --> 00:53:55,520
about and i look to my right up in the

1362
00:53:59,589 --> 00:53:57,680
sky and it's the strangest thing to say

1363
00:54:01,829 --> 00:53:59,599
but it was almost as if

1364
00:54:04,549 --> 00:54:01,839
i was not told to look but i was drawn

1365
00:54:07,109 --> 00:54:04,559
to look up there and as i look up there

1366
00:54:09,510 --> 00:54:07,119
i see a shape that can only describe a

1367
00:54:11,670 --> 00:54:09,520
cross between a boomerang

1368
00:54:13,349 --> 00:54:11,680
a triangle and we have a chocolate over

1369
00:54:16,069 --> 00:54:13,359
here called a teres chocolate orange

1370
00:54:18,069 --> 00:54:16,079
which has orange segments to it almost

1371
00:54:20,630 --> 00:54:18,079
this kind of a shape

1372
00:54:22,870 --> 00:54:20,640
and it was like that now

1373
00:54:25,109 --> 00:54:22,880
the sky was super clear but it was like

1374
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:25,119
a dark blue hue because the moon was

1375
00:54:29,510 --> 00:54:26,880
quite bright

1376
00:54:31,430 --> 00:54:29,520
this shape stood out against it because

1377
00:54:33,349 --> 00:54:31,440
it was so black

1378
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:33,359
but within the shape itself were

1379
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:36,240
hundreds and hundreds of small lights

1380
00:54:39,750 --> 00:54:37,680
now this is the really weird thing being

1381
00:54:41,589 --> 00:54:39,760
a detailer the first thing for some

1382
00:54:44,630 --> 00:54:41,599
reason i thought was well those lights

1383
00:54:46,150 --> 00:54:44,640
aren't very bright um and you know what

1384
00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:46,160
are they doing and they were flickering

1385
00:54:51,589 --> 00:54:48,640
literally on and off almost as if

1386
00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:51,599
glitching but random like this hundreds

1387
00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:53,280
and hundreds and hundreds of them within

1388
00:54:57,430 --> 00:54:55,520
the shape itself the shape was moving

1389
00:54:59,829 --> 00:54:57,440
the second i saw it the object was

1390
00:55:02,470 --> 00:54:59,839
moving the second i saw it i screamed at

1391
00:55:04,470 --> 00:55:02,480
my wife to say look look look and while

1392
00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:04,480
she's looking around trying to catch it

1393
00:55:08,630 --> 00:55:06,880
i couldn't take my eyes off it and

1394
00:55:10,309 --> 00:55:08,640
literally i had my hand in my pocket on

1395
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:10,319
my phone and i'm thinking almost like

1396
00:55:14,390 --> 00:55:12,319
what you say in one of your podcasts i

1397
00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:14,400
can't risk taking my phone out my pocket

1398
00:55:18,549 --> 00:55:16,480
cause if i take my eye off it

1399
00:55:20,710 --> 00:55:18,559
it's gonna go it's gonna do something so

1400
00:55:22,630 --> 00:55:20,720
i just my eye on it while saying to my

1401
00:55:25,190 --> 00:55:22,640
wife it's there it's there and it came

1402
00:55:27,589 --> 00:55:25,200
across us silent asylum with all these

1403
00:55:29,829 --> 00:55:27,599
stars and lights going on it and then it

1404
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:29,839
it almost

1405
00:55:36,470 --> 00:55:34,400
almost like like it looked like a giant

1406
00:55:38,870 --> 00:55:36,480
kind of a kite

1407
00:55:40,630 --> 00:55:38,880
still with angular edges a kite and then

1408
00:55:43,270 --> 00:55:40,640
it changed back into its shape again of

1409
00:55:44,549 --> 00:55:43,280
this boomerang and it continued directly

1410
00:55:46,230 --> 00:55:44,559
in front of me with all these lights

1411
00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:46,240
going but it was so

1412
00:55:51,349 --> 00:55:48,400
presented against the night sky it was

1413
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:51,359
so clear i mean it was just so so clear

1414
00:55:55,190 --> 00:55:53,280
and then we just watched it disappear

1415
00:55:57,190 --> 00:55:55,200
off float in front of us and then it did

1416
00:55:59,030 --> 00:55:57,200
a curve to the right and then it just

1417
00:56:00,950 --> 00:55:59,040
carried on and carried on and carried on

1418
00:56:03,030 --> 00:56:00,960
and you could see the outline suddenly

1419
00:56:04,390 --> 00:56:03,040
the lights were now the outline of it

1420
00:56:06,549 --> 00:56:04,400
and the ones in the middle were starting

1421
00:56:08,950 --> 00:56:06,559
to fade even more almost as if

1422
00:56:10,549 --> 00:56:08,960
it couldn't quite work out how bright to

1423
00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:10,559
be or the color it couldn't get the

1424
00:56:13,750 --> 00:56:11,760
color correctly

1425
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:13,760
as if it was trying to cloak itself or

1426
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:15,119
something but it just couldn't he just

1427
00:56:18,150 --> 00:56:16,880
couldn't do it he just couldn't do it

1428
00:56:20,549 --> 00:56:18,160
but wow

1429
00:56:22,309 --> 00:56:20,559
silent and it didn't speed off it just

1430
00:56:23,030 --> 00:56:22,319
it was one speed

1431
00:56:25,990 --> 00:56:23,040
but

1432
00:56:28,470 --> 00:56:26,000
it just reminded me of a cartoon or not

1433
00:56:30,710 --> 00:56:28,480
like a ghost floating by

1434
00:56:33,030 --> 00:56:30,720
like you see on movie just silent and it

1435
00:56:35,190 --> 00:56:33,040
did this and then it was gone

1436
00:56:36,150 --> 00:56:35,200
did it did it did it never change speed

1437
00:56:40,549 --> 00:56:36,160
at all

1438
00:56:42,470 --> 00:56:40,559
other thing it was silent

1439
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:42,480
not only the craft was silent

1440
00:56:47,030 --> 00:56:44,720
but the atmosphere as it was going on

1441
00:56:48,950 --> 00:56:47,040
with me shouting

1442
00:56:50,630 --> 00:56:48,960
oh sorry excuse me

1443
00:56:54,230 --> 00:56:50,640
with me

1444
00:57:06,789 --> 00:56:54,240
that music's actually perfect for

1445
00:57:06,799 --> 00:57:10,830
me

1446
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:15,589
[Music]

1447
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:17,670
all right welcome back this is martin

1448
00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:18,720
willis

1449
00:57:25,270 --> 00:57:22,240
and let me just take this down i'm gonna

1450
00:57:27,109 --> 00:57:25,280
bring our guests back in uh so i just i

1451
00:57:30,710 --> 00:57:27,119
just wanted to say

1452
00:57:32,950 --> 00:57:30,720
uh when it comes to these ufo sightings

1453
00:57:34,150 --> 00:57:32,960
they seem to be very popular

1454
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:34,160
um

1455
00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:36,559
as far as you know people are really

1456
00:57:41,510 --> 00:57:38,640
loving them trying to make the automatic

1457
00:57:43,109 --> 00:57:41,520
adjusting camera to work here

1458
00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:43,119
it doesn't seem to be working that's

1459
00:57:48,549 --> 00:57:46,640
okay um anyway so these have been really

1460
00:57:51,510 --> 00:57:48,559
popular and

1461
00:57:53,270 --> 00:57:51,520
uh i would like to say if you had a

1462
00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:53,280
sighting you'd like to talk about

1463
00:57:57,670 --> 00:57:55,440
just send me an email at martin podcast

1464
00:58:00,150 --> 00:57:57,680
ufo.com i'll talk to you on the phone

1465
00:58:02,390 --> 00:58:00,160
see if it works out and uh if it was

1466
00:58:04,309 --> 00:58:02,400
something that i think we should post we

1467
00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:04,319
will during the commercial breaks as

1468
00:58:09,109 --> 00:58:06,640
i've been doing and that will the full

1469
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:09,119
video of this it gets into uh other

1470
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:11,760
things too as it goes along uh that'll

1471
00:58:15,510 --> 00:58:13,680
come out tonight at midnight

1472
00:58:17,109 --> 00:58:15,520
and um

1473
00:58:20,789 --> 00:58:17,119
there was one other thing i wanted to

1474
00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:20,799
say about this oh yes stu uh stuart

1475
00:58:26,870 --> 00:58:23,280
seymour who uh had this sighting he just

1476
00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:26,880
sent me today this morning a uh video of

1477
00:58:32,549 --> 00:58:30,000
something else he he uh videoed over

1478
00:58:33,510 --> 00:58:32,559
the uh property where he lives at and it

1479
00:58:36,150 --> 00:58:33,520
was uh

1480
00:58:38,950 --> 00:58:36,160
like a strange like a triangular

1481
00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:38,960
craft there it goes triangular craft and

1482
00:58:43,349 --> 00:58:40,480
to me it looked like it was dropping

1483
00:58:46,150 --> 00:58:43,359
something out of the the bottom of it so

1484
00:58:48,390 --> 00:58:46,160
weird goings on there in uh hillbridge

1485
00:58:50,710 --> 00:58:48,400
uh where he lives but anyway i do

1486
00:58:53,750 --> 00:58:50,720
appreciate that and our guest is back uh

1487
00:58:58,230 --> 00:58:56,150
ah thank you yes jonathan so when you

1488
00:59:00,870 --> 00:58:58,240
were talking about you know

1489
00:59:03,109 --> 00:59:00,880
the speculation you went into some micro

1490
00:59:05,430 --> 00:59:03,119
a black hole or something like that um

1491
00:59:06,950 --> 00:59:05,440
so you actually gained 45 minutes

1492
00:59:09,030 --> 00:59:06,960
usually as you know i'm sure you've

1493
00:59:11,670 --> 00:59:09,040
heard many times people talk about

1494
00:59:14,230 --> 00:59:11,680
missing time but you actually gained

1495
00:59:16,710 --> 00:59:14,240
45 minutes which is an another weird

1496
00:59:19,270 --> 00:59:16,720
that's almost seems weirder than

1497
00:59:20,470 --> 00:59:19,280
much weirder than missing time

1498
00:59:21,910 --> 00:59:20,480
pretty bizarre

1499
00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:21,920
yeah

1500
00:59:27,270 --> 00:59:24,720
and and i i have gone through

1501
00:59:28,710 --> 00:59:27,280
places where i've had missing time

1502
00:59:31,270 --> 00:59:28,720
um

1503
00:59:32,789 --> 00:59:31,280
it's very disconcerting because you're

1504
00:59:35,109 --> 00:59:32,799
going down the road

1505
00:59:37,670 --> 00:59:35,119
usually at night

1506
00:59:40,230 --> 00:59:37,680
you pass a location that that you know

1507
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:40,240
it's a kind of a landmark location

1508
00:59:45,270 --> 00:59:41,359
and

1509
00:59:47,430 --> 00:59:45,280
i've just got a few more miles before i

1510
00:59:50,069 --> 00:59:47,440
get home

1511
00:59:52,789 --> 00:59:50,079
and then your seems like you're going

1512
00:59:54,230 --> 00:59:52,799
forever another 10 15 minutes

1513
00:59:56,470 --> 00:59:54,240
you should have been home

1514
00:59:57,829 --> 00:59:56,480
and suddenly you pass the same landmark

1515
00:59:59,510 --> 00:59:57,839
again

1516
01:00:00,789 --> 00:59:59,520
and

1517
01:00:02,230 --> 01:00:00,799
you know you're sitting there going what

1518
01:00:03,910 --> 01:00:02,240
the heck you know

1519
01:00:06,230 --> 01:00:03,920
i i thought i was almost home you know

1520
01:00:08,549 --> 01:00:06,240
how come i'm passing this thing a second

1521
01:00:09,910 --> 01:00:08,559
time that's happened to me on several

1522
01:00:10,710 --> 01:00:09,920
occasions

1523
01:00:13,109 --> 01:00:10,720
and

1524
01:00:15,030 --> 01:00:13,119
it got to the point where it actually

1525
01:00:17,030 --> 01:00:15,040
got annoying enough

1526
01:00:20,470 --> 01:00:17,040
that uh i put a

1527
01:00:22,870 --> 01:00:20,480
dashcam camera

1528
01:00:25,750 --> 01:00:22,880
under my mirror in the front

1529
01:00:29,030 --> 01:00:25,760
and uh i just got a new one it's it's

1530
01:00:31,349 --> 01:00:29,040
now 4k uh camera in the front and i've

1531
01:00:32,870 --> 01:00:31,359
got a rear facing camera

1532
01:00:35,349 --> 01:00:32,880
in the back

1533
01:00:37,030 --> 01:00:35,359
so uh ever since i put camera in the

1534
01:00:39,430 --> 01:00:37,040
front of my vehicle

1535
01:00:40,950 --> 01:00:39,440
i haven't had any sightings and that's

1536
01:00:43,510 --> 01:00:40,960
okay with me

1537
01:00:45,270 --> 01:00:43,520
yeah yeah well they know

1538
01:00:49,510 --> 01:00:45,280
they know the camera's there just

1539
01:00:51,510 --> 01:00:49,520
kidding but uh yeah interesting um and

1540
01:00:53,510 --> 01:00:51,520
what are there other people

1541
01:00:55,990 --> 01:00:53,520
that you there i know there's a lot of

1542
01:00:57,750 --> 01:00:56,000
cases that you've investigated um but

1543
01:00:59,349 --> 01:00:57,760
there are other other people that talk

1544
01:01:04,549 --> 01:00:59,359
about missing

1545
01:01:09,910 --> 01:01:07,270
uh yeah we've we've actually talked to

1546
01:01:12,150 --> 01:01:09,920
uh other people

1547
01:01:14,470 --> 01:01:12,160
some of them have said that they don't

1548
01:01:17,510 --> 01:01:14,480
know what happened or maybe they weren't

1549
01:01:20,870 --> 01:01:17,520
aware but there were circumstances

1550
01:01:23,190 --> 01:01:20,880
in their encounters where they appear to

1551
01:01:25,510 --> 01:01:23,200
be missing time but they're they're not

1552
01:01:28,069 --> 01:01:25,520
aware of it at all

1553
01:01:30,789 --> 01:01:28,079
but during their interviews it comes up

1554
01:01:32,630 --> 01:01:30,799
that hey this is you you start keying

1555
01:01:36,390 --> 01:01:32,640
into that stuff you don't ask them about

1556
01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:36,400
it uh you let them relate what they know

1557
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:38,799
uh you don't have a meeting question you

1558
01:01:40,470 --> 01:01:39,760
don't

1559
01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:40,480
yeah

1560
01:01:44,390 --> 01:01:41,760
you know you just

1561
01:01:46,470 --> 01:01:44,400
get get the facts as they know it

1562
01:01:48,390 --> 01:01:46,480
but it's always interesting to run into

1563
01:01:50,069 --> 01:01:48,400
situations like that where you say hey

1564
01:01:52,789 --> 01:01:50,079
they could have

1565
01:01:54,549 --> 01:01:52,799
there's something there that you know

1566
01:01:56,230 --> 01:01:54,559
could have happened but you know you

1567
01:01:57,750 --> 01:01:56,240
just leave it in the realm of

1568
01:02:00,390 --> 01:01:57,760
speculation

1569
01:02:02,950 --> 01:02:00,400
right right and what about some let's

1570
01:02:06,710 --> 01:02:02,960
talk about some other encounters

1571
01:02:09,109 --> 01:02:06,720
that involve ufos some of the stories um

1572
01:02:12,230 --> 01:02:09,119
that you can tell that you've had to

1573
01:02:14,150 --> 01:02:12,240
you know investigate again is it is it

1574
01:02:15,430 --> 01:02:14,160
always with your partner at that when

1575
01:02:17,510 --> 01:02:15,440
you were doing i know you're not doing

1576
01:02:21,109 --> 01:02:17,520
that now but when you were doing it was

1577
01:02:22,549 --> 01:02:21,119
it always with uh stan

1578
01:02:25,109 --> 01:02:22,559
uh

1579
01:02:26,069 --> 01:02:25,119
a lot of times he would take cases on

1580
01:02:28,789 --> 01:02:26,079
his own

1581
01:02:31,109 --> 01:02:28,799
and i would take cases on my own

1582
01:02:32,950 --> 01:02:31,119
and if we were in a position or the case

1583
01:02:34,390 --> 01:02:32,960
was a big enough case

1584
01:02:36,789 --> 01:02:34,400
we would both do them

1585
01:02:40,789 --> 01:02:36,799
so he's investigated bigfoot cases on

1586
01:02:43,589 --> 01:02:40,799
his own and i've done some on my own um

1587
01:02:46,309 --> 01:02:43,599
and and haunting cases are the same way

1588
01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:46,319
so you know we we split up or we may

1589
01:02:50,630 --> 01:02:48,960
come together to collaborate

1590
01:02:52,230 --> 01:02:50,640
because we had such a large area of

1591
01:02:53,750 --> 01:02:52,240
ground cover

1592
01:02:55,910 --> 01:02:53,760
right right

1593
01:02:57,029 --> 01:02:55,920
so let's go into some of the other

1594
01:02:59,910 --> 01:02:57,039
the other

1595
01:03:04,789 --> 01:03:02,870
okay so um

1596
01:03:06,630 --> 01:03:04,799
this this one

1597
01:03:07,510 --> 01:03:06,640
we would consider it probably the most

1598
01:03:09,829 --> 01:03:07,520
uh

1599
01:03:12,069 --> 01:03:09,839
well-known case that we worked on we

1600
01:03:13,029 --> 01:03:12,079
call it the old man case

1601
01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:13,039
uh

1602
01:03:18,630 --> 01:03:17,200
in his in his eighties

1603
01:03:21,430 --> 01:03:18,640
and um

1604
01:03:22,390 --> 01:03:21,440
he's an elderly navajo man that contacts

1605
01:03:23,990 --> 01:03:22,400
us

1606
01:03:27,190 --> 01:03:24,000
um

1607
01:03:28,230 --> 01:03:27,200
he says that he had a craft come over

1608
01:03:31,349 --> 01:03:28,240
his house

1609
01:03:33,670 --> 01:03:31,359
in the middle of the night and it lands

1610
01:03:35,109 --> 01:03:33,680
up on the ridge uh about a quarter mile

1611
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:35,119
away

1612
01:03:38,789 --> 01:03:36,400
and um

1613
01:03:41,349 --> 01:03:38,799
he has uh

1614
01:03:43,109 --> 01:03:41,359
in the navajo language there is no word

1615
01:03:45,029 --> 01:03:43,119
for alien

1616
01:03:46,150 --> 01:03:45,039
so he's referring to them as little

1617
01:03:48,309 --> 01:03:46,160
children

1618
01:03:50,549 --> 01:03:48,319
come around his house about 12 30 1

1619
01:03:52,710 --> 01:03:50,559
o'clock in the morning

1620
01:03:54,549 --> 01:03:52,720
he's got no electricity

1621
01:03:56,630 --> 01:03:54,559
no running water

1622
01:03:59,750 --> 01:03:56,640
got an outhouse in the back

1623
01:04:01,270 --> 01:03:59,760
and he's got these solar lights around

1624
01:04:03,910 --> 01:04:01,280
his house

1625
01:04:06,789 --> 01:04:03,920
and he says that four little kids came

1626
01:04:08,470 --> 01:04:06,799
to his house after that landing

1627
01:04:10,390 --> 01:04:08,480
and

1628
01:04:13,589 --> 01:04:10,400
they're walking around outside he

1629
01:04:16,549 --> 01:04:13,599
describes them as having big heads

1630
01:04:22,710 --> 01:04:19,670
they're wearing a light colored

1631
01:04:24,950 --> 01:04:22,720
outfit either light gray or white that's

1632
01:04:27,510 --> 01:04:24,960
skin tight

1633
01:04:29,029 --> 01:04:27,520
and he says that they're walking around

1634
01:04:32,069 --> 01:04:29,039
shining these

1635
01:04:33,589 --> 01:04:32,079
uh what he calls a flashlight uh

1636
01:04:36,470 --> 01:04:33,599
something in their hand

1637
01:04:40,069 --> 01:04:36,480
that's shooting out of a beam a pencil

1638
01:04:41,829 --> 01:04:40,079
beam of of about a half inch to one inch

1639
01:04:45,829 --> 01:04:41,839
and

1640
01:04:48,549 --> 01:04:45,839
is red

1641
01:04:51,270 --> 01:04:48,559
blue yellow and green

1642
01:04:53,270 --> 01:04:51,280
and uh so each one is has a different

1643
01:04:54,950 --> 01:04:53,280
color and they're shining it looking

1644
01:04:56,630 --> 01:04:54,960
like they're looking for something on

1645
01:04:59,430 --> 01:04:56,640
the ground

1646
01:05:02,950 --> 01:04:59,440
and he watches them out of the window

1647
01:05:07,349 --> 01:05:04,870
earlier he had been standing outside

1648
01:05:08,470 --> 01:05:07,359
when when this thing landed or or

1649
01:05:12,470 --> 01:05:08,480
hovered

1650
01:05:14,630 --> 01:05:12,480
and he says that his his dog which was a

1651
01:05:16,710 --> 01:05:14,640
pup is a blue healer

1652
01:05:19,190 --> 01:05:16,720
uh takes off running

1653
01:05:20,870 --> 01:05:19,200
and barking toward where the things are

1654
01:05:24,230 --> 01:05:20,880
coming down the hill

1655
01:05:25,829 --> 01:05:24,240
and he hears it in the dark you go yay

1656
01:05:26,710 --> 01:05:25,839
and then it comes running back to the

1657
01:05:28,870 --> 01:05:26,720
house

1658
01:05:31,670 --> 01:05:28,880
lays down by the front doorstep curls

1659
01:05:33,829 --> 01:05:31,680
into a ball and doesn't move

1660
01:05:36,069 --> 01:05:33,839
uh there was another dog there that had

1661
01:05:37,349 --> 01:05:36,079
just had pups that was a pit bull on a

1662
01:05:38,870 --> 01:05:37,359
chain

1663
01:05:41,670 --> 01:05:38,880
and when we were there doing the

1664
01:05:43,349 --> 01:05:41,680
investigation this pit bull was

1665
01:05:44,789 --> 01:05:43,359
coming off the

1666
01:05:46,549 --> 01:05:44,799
you know like it was going to break the

1667
01:05:48,630 --> 01:05:46,559
chain seriously

1668
01:05:49,750 --> 01:05:48,640
and

1669
01:05:51,430 --> 01:05:49,760
you know it looked like it could have

1670
01:05:52,150 --> 01:05:51,440
taken us all on

1671
01:05:56,950 --> 01:05:52,160
and

1672
01:05:58,789 --> 01:05:56,960
uh to the house

1673
01:06:01,029 --> 01:05:58,799
he said that that dog stayed in its

1674
01:06:02,630 --> 01:06:01,039
house and would not come out and didn't

1675
01:06:03,589 --> 01:06:02,640
make us down

1676
01:06:05,589 --> 01:06:03,599
um

1677
01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:05,599
so

1678
01:06:09,670 --> 01:06:08,240
we we get there to do the investigation

1679
01:06:12,950 --> 01:06:09,680
and um

1680
01:06:15,029 --> 01:06:12,960
that pup the blue healer is jumping all

1681
01:06:17,270 --> 01:06:15,039
over us with muddy paws

1682
01:06:18,870 --> 01:06:17,280
and if you're in uniform you don't like

1683
01:06:20,789 --> 01:06:18,880
mud all over your uniform so we're

1684
01:06:23,589 --> 01:06:20,799
trying to push it away and you know get

1685
01:06:24,789 --> 01:06:23,599
away from us that kind of thing

1686
01:06:26,710 --> 01:06:24,799
we had a

1687
01:06:29,589 --> 01:06:26,720
crew there that was taking background

1688
01:06:31,349 --> 01:06:29,599
radiation readings and one of the girls

1689
01:06:33,510 --> 01:06:31,359
real dog lover

1690
01:06:34,710 --> 01:06:33,520
she's wearing a white tyvek

1691
01:06:36,470 --> 01:06:34,720
suit

1692
01:06:38,390 --> 01:06:36,480
and

1693
01:06:40,549 --> 01:06:38,400
she's calling the dog saying come here

1694
01:06:42,710 --> 01:06:40,559
come here come here boy you know and it

1695
01:06:44,549 --> 01:06:42,720
saw that white suit it ran to the front

1696
01:06:46,950 --> 01:06:44,559
of the house and curled up in a ball and

1697
01:06:49,109 --> 01:06:46,960
wouldn't come

1698
01:06:52,069 --> 01:06:49,119
so obviously you have some kind of an

1699
01:06:53,910 --> 01:06:52,079
association with a light-colored suit

1700
01:06:56,950 --> 01:06:53,920
um

1701
01:06:59,990 --> 01:06:56,960
we interviewed him a total of three

1702
01:07:05,029 --> 01:07:00,000
times over four years

1703
01:07:07,750 --> 01:07:05,039
uh once uh on our own once with uh mufon

1704
01:07:11,349 --> 01:07:07,760
investigator out of phoenix

1705
01:07:13,750 --> 01:07:11,359
and once with a couple of investigators

1706
01:07:15,109 --> 01:07:13,760
that were working for bigelow aerospace

1707
01:07:16,470 --> 01:07:15,119
research

1708
01:07:18,390 --> 01:07:16,480
and

1709
01:07:19,990 --> 01:07:18,400
in those three interviews which were all

1710
01:07:22,470 --> 01:07:20,000
taped

1711
01:07:26,789 --> 01:07:22,480
he talked about the navajo oral

1712
01:07:29,589 --> 01:07:26,799
tradition his story never changed

1713
01:07:32,470 --> 01:07:29,599
it was just the same matter of factly

1714
01:07:34,390 --> 01:07:32,480
and uh he said that he

1715
01:07:36,390 --> 01:07:34,400
actually got upset because these little

1716
01:07:38,950 --> 01:07:36,400
kids were around his house he was going

1717
01:07:40,870 --> 01:07:38,960
to go outside and confront them

1718
01:07:43,109 --> 01:07:40,880
so he grabs

1719
01:07:45,109 --> 01:07:43,119
one of these dry cell flashlights kind

1720
01:07:45,829 --> 01:07:45,119
of a big square one

1721
01:07:48,630 --> 01:07:45,839
and

1722
01:07:50,150 --> 01:07:48,640
as he's going down the steps

1723
01:07:52,390 --> 01:07:50,160
of the house

1724
01:07:55,029 --> 01:07:52,400
he tripped and fell

1725
01:07:57,270 --> 01:07:55,039
now you know 80 years plus

1726
01:07:58,549 --> 01:07:57,280
if you fall that could be serious

1727
01:08:01,270 --> 01:07:58,559
business

1728
01:08:03,270 --> 01:08:01,280
and he says that when he fell he broke

1729
01:08:04,870 --> 01:08:03,280
his flashlight

1730
01:08:07,670 --> 01:08:04,880
and as he

1731
01:08:10,630 --> 01:08:07,680
looked up he saw these things

1732
01:08:13,109 --> 01:08:10,640
they were in line with each other

1733
01:08:16,550 --> 01:08:13,119
drifting back up the hill like they were

1734
01:08:19,030 --> 01:08:16,560
almost astride something and and just

1735
01:08:21,349 --> 01:08:19,040
literally hovering and going back up the

1736
01:08:26,070 --> 01:08:23,349
so and he said that it didn't make it

1737
01:08:27,669 --> 01:08:26,080
they didn't make any sound

1738
01:08:30,309 --> 01:08:27,679
well yeah

1739
01:08:33,269 --> 01:08:30,319
he called us out there and we

1740
01:08:35,430 --> 01:08:33,279
you know looked around for evidence uh

1741
01:08:37,269 --> 01:08:35,440
interviewed you know interviewed him

1742
01:08:39,110 --> 01:08:37,279
rather meticulously

1743
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:39,120
um

1744
01:08:42,950 --> 01:08:40,960
and uh

1745
01:08:45,189 --> 01:08:42,960
at the end you know we we wrote our

1746
01:08:46,149 --> 01:08:45,199
reports on it and locked them up

1747
01:08:48,950 --> 01:08:46,159
uh

1748
01:08:50,470 --> 01:08:48,960
as an aside to this case a little bit on

1749
01:08:51,669 --> 01:08:50,480
the humorous side

1750
01:08:57,749 --> 01:08:51,679
we

1751
01:09:00,630 --> 01:08:57,759
and um

1752
01:09:02,309 --> 01:09:00,640
it was a a production company

1753
01:09:03,749 --> 01:09:02,319
that wanted to interview him and they

1754
01:09:05,749 --> 01:09:03,759
said they're willing to pay him a lot of

1755
01:09:09,510 --> 01:09:05,759
money could we contact him

1756
01:09:10,789 --> 01:09:09,520
and see if he'd be willing to be on tv

1757
01:09:15,430 --> 01:09:10,799
and

1758
01:09:16,630 --> 01:09:15,440
not i didn't do this for

1759
01:09:18,950 --> 01:09:16,640
for

1760
01:09:21,430 --> 01:09:18,960
notoriety or to be well known or

1761
01:09:23,590 --> 01:09:21,440
anything and i don't want money he says

1762
01:09:25,430 --> 01:09:23,600
i just reported it

1763
01:09:27,030 --> 01:09:25,440
and so we went back and told the

1764
01:09:29,669 --> 01:09:27,040
production company

1765
01:09:32,309 --> 01:09:29,679
that he didn't want to talk to them

1766
01:09:33,110 --> 01:09:32,319
and they told us

1767
01:09:36,149 --> 01:09:33,120
that

1768
01:09:39,189 --> 01:09:36,159
we saw your cms report the first time it

1769
01:09:41,590 --> 01:09:39,199
was uh submitted to mufon before before

1770
01:09:43,189 --> 01:09:41,600
they took it down the next morning

1771
01:09:45,829 --> 01:09:43,199
and uh we're going to go out there and

1772
01:09:47,749 --> 01:09:45,839
talk to them anyway

1773
01:09:50,950 --> 01:09:47,759
so me and stan looked at each other and

1774
01:09:53,590 --> 01:09:50,960
we said okay you know go ahead have fun

1775
01:09:55,270 --> 01:09:53,600
and hung up on them

1776
01:09:57,510 --> 01:09:55,280
we didn't tell them that when we

1777
01:10:00,790 --> 01:09:57,520
submitted our cms report

1778
01:10:03,170 --> 01:10:00,800
that we had put the location 100 miles

1779
01:10:07,189 --> 01:10:03,180
away from where it actually occurred

1780
01:10:10,310 --> 01:10:07,199
[Laughter]

1781
01:10:13,310 --> 01:10:11,750
i thought i thought i was going to hear

1782
01:10:15,430 --> 01:10:13,320
a story about the pit bull

1783
01:10:17,430 --> 01:10:15,440
[Laughter]

1784
01:10:19,030 --> 01:10:17,440
so uh attacking them or something like

1785
01:10:23,510 --> 01:10:19,040
that but

1786
01:10:25,750 --> 01:10:23,520
anyway well serve them right but um

1787
01:10:28,550 --> 01:10:25,760
that is that is that something you would

1788
01:10:32,630 --> 01:10:28,560
often do just so you you're just wanted

1789
01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:35,350
uh yeah we would uh tell people that we

1790
01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:37,840
guaranteed their anonymity

1791
01:10:41,750 --> 01:10:39,760
and that was one of the reasons why a

1792
01:10:44,870 --> 01:10:41,760
lot of people came forward to speak to

1793
01:10:45,990 --> 01:10:44,880
us about these cases

1794
01:10:49,350 --> 01:10:46,000
they

1795
01:10:51,350 --> 01:10:49,360
not want

1796
01:10:53,430 --> 01:10:51,360
people to be

1797
01:10:55,910 --> 01:10:53,440
laughing at them or family members to

1798
01:10:57,189 --> 01:10:55,920
know about it

1799
01:10:58,870 --> 01:10:57,199
when you were investigating that

1800
01:11:00,470 --> 01:10:58,880
particular case

1801
01:11:02,470 --> 01:11:00,480
i i don't know what the

1802
01:11:04,229 --> 01:11:02,480
what the ground is like there i know a

1803
01:11:06,229 --> 01:11:04,239
lot of um

1804
01:11:08,950 --> 01:11:06,239
where i walked you wouldn't really see

1805
01:11:11,270 --> 01:11:08,960
footprints but some places you you had

1806
01:11:12,550 --> 01:11:11,280
mentioned you know like where you

1807
01:11:14,390 --> 01:11:12,560
cast those

1808
01:11:16,070 --> 01:11:14,400
uh bigfoot

1809
01:11:17,990 --> 01:11:16,080
prints and things like that but did you

1810
01:11:19,990 --> 01:11:18,000
look in this particular case

1811
01:11:21,270 --> 01:11:20,000
to see if you could find any evidence of

1812
01:11:23,110 --> 01:11:21,280
tracks

1813
01:11:24,830 --> 01:11:23,120
leading down from the hill where this

1814
01:11:28,149 --> 01:11:24,840
supposedly

1815
01:11:29,590 --> 01:11:28,159
was yes we did we hiked that entire

1816
01:11:32,709 --> 01:11:29,600
ridge line

1817
01:11:35,030 --> 01:11:32,719
uh we even uh went up there with uh

1818
01:11:35,669 --> 01:11:35,040
dissimiter looking at radiation readings

1819
01:11:39,750 --> 01:11:35,679
and

1820
01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:39,760
readings to see if there was a an

1821
01:11:42,790 --> 01:11:40,960
increase

1822
01:11:45,750 --> 01:11:42,800
uh we were looking for ground effects

1823
01:11:47,830 --> 01:11:45,760
left left over we didn't find any so we

1824
01:11:49,110 --> 01:11:47,840
assumed that whatever it was is probably

1825
01:11:50,390 --> 01:11:49,120
hovering

1826
01:11:52,630 --> 01:11:50,400
um

1827
01:11:54,630 --> 01:11:52,640
on the ground at the bottom we found a

1828
01:11:56,390 --> 01:11:54,640
series of

1829
01:11:58,470 --> 01:11:56,400
uh small

1830
01:12:00,149 --> 01:11:58,480
circular marks

1831
01:12:02,310 --> 01:12:00,159
in the snow

1832
01:12:05,110 --> 01:12:02,320
that were in a straight line oh and

1833
01:12:05,910 --> 01:12:05,120
there's no there was snow there

1834
01:12:09,030 --> 01:12:05,920
yeah

1835
01:12:12,630 --> 01:12:09,040
there was it was patches of snow

1836
01:12:14,550 --> 01:12:12,640
and and uh and mud

1837
01:12:16,550 --> 01:12:14,560
oh wow and these tracks were all in a

1838
01:12:21,030 --> 01:12:16,560
straight line going for

1839
01:12:24,709 --> 01:12:22,709
so when you when you're interviewing

1840
01:12:27,030 --> 01:12:24,719
someone like this i i have talked to

1841
01:12:28,310 --> 01:12:27,040
other you know policemen that i've known

1842
01:12:30,310 --> 01:12:28,320
over the years and stuff like that but

1843
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:30,320
they really watch the body language is

1844
01:12:37,830 --> 01:12:31,280
that

1845
01:12:39,830 --> 01:12:37,840
gentleman was

1846
01:12:41,910 --> 01:12:39,840
you know uh

1847
01:12:44,470 --> 01:12:41,920
straight with you and

1848
01:12:48,070 --> 01:12:44,480
uh did what did you also think that did

1849
01:12:55,110 --> 01:12:52,070
uh we noticed that there was no fear

1850
01:12:57,430 --> 01:12:55,120
uh he was very concerned

1851
01:12:59,990 --> 01:12:57,440
when he heard the dog yelp

1852
01:13:02,709 --> 01:13:00,000
and the dog came running back in fact

1853
01:13:04,630 --> 01:13:02,719
several weeks later after we did our

1854
01:13:08,709 --> 01:13:04,640
initial investigation

1855
01:13:10,950 --> 01:13:08,719
that blue healer pup died

1856
01:13:12,070 --> 01:13:10,960
the family didn't tell us about it

1857
01:13:13,510 --> 01:13:12,080
otherwise we would have had it

1858
01:13:15,430 --> 01:13:13,520
necropsied

1859
01:13:19,189 --> 01:13:15,440
that

1860
01:13:20,470 --> 01:13:19,199
but we think it might have had something

1861
01:13:23,030 --> 01:13:20,480
to do with the

1862
01:13:25,110 --> 01:13:23,040
with the contact with the uh

1863
01:13:27,590 --> 01:13:25,120
with the occupants of that uh vehicle

1864
01:13:29,350 --> 01:13:27,600
that was up on top of the ridge so

1865
01:13:31,590 --> 01:13:29,360
that's actually the same dog that went

1866
01:13:34,310 --> 01:13:31,600
after whatever it was and then came back

1867
01:13:36,630 --> 01:13:34,320
yelped and came back

1868
01:13:39,750 --> 01:13:36,640
yeah yeah that's just damn dog

1869
01:13:41,510 --> 01:13:39,760
wow yeah that's too bad that's sad

1870
01:13:43,590 --> 01:13:41,520
oh interesting

1871
01:13:45,189 --> 01:13:43,600
so in a case like this

1872
01:13:47,910 --> 01:13:45,199
and we

1873
01:13:48,790 --> 01:13:47,920
we would rate him as far as being a

1874
01:13:50,709 --> 01:13:48,800
witness

1875
01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:50,719
and putting him on the stand

1876
01:13:56,950 --> 01:13:54,400
as a very reliable witness

1877
01:13:57,910 --> 01:13:56,960
we he actually spoke in navajo the whole

1878
01:13:59,910 --> 01:13:57,920
time

1879
01:14:02,149 --> 01:13:59,920
we brought in a

1880
01:14:03,350 --> 01:14:02,159
federal court interpreter

1881
01:14:05,750 --> 01:14:03,360
that was

1882
01:14:07,189 --> 01:14:05,760
interpreting doing simultaneous

1883
01:14:08,229 --> 01:14:07,199
translation

1884
01:14:10,229 --> 01:14:08,239
for us

1885
01:14:11,270 --> 01:14:10,239
so this is somebody who has gone through

1886
01:14:12,149 --> 01:14:11,280
a course

1887
01:14:13,910 --> 01:14:12,159
to

1888
01:14:15,830 --> 01:14:13,920
interpret for navajo people at the

1889
01:14:17,430 --> 01:14:15,840
federal court level

1890
01:14:19,350 --> 01:14:17,440
and um

1891
01:14:21,910 --> 01:14:19,360
simultaneous translation is very

1892
01:14:23,350 --> 01:14:21,920
difficult to do you as they're speaking

1893
01:14:26,070 --> 01:14:23,360
you're speaking and

1894
01:14:30,390 --> 01:14:26,080
relating exactly what they're saying

1895
01:14:33,189 --> 01:14:30,400
wow wow interesting and so when you

1896
01:14:35,990 --> 01:14:33,199
in a situation like that how do you

1897
01:14:38,390 --> 01:14:36,000
how do you how are you alerted to this

1898
01:14:41,510 --> 01:14:38,400
particular situation when something like

1899
01:14:46,550 --> 01:14:44,630
well in this case uh it was a ranger

1900
01:14:48,790 --> 01:14:46,560
that worked in that area

1901
01:14:50,229 --> 01:14:48,800
that had heard about it and had talked

1902
01:14:52,870 --> 01:14:50,239
to the old man

1903
01:14:55,110 --> 01:14:52,880
and uh relayed that information to us

1904
01:14:57,590 --> 01:14:55,120
and says hey

1905
01:14:58,709 --> 01:14:57,600
we got this thing going on over here

1906
01:15:00,870 --> 01:14:58,719
um

1907
01:15:03,750 --> 01:15:00,880
after we did the investigation we

1908
01:15:05,990 --> 01:15:03,760
maintained contact with that family

1909
01:15:07,510 --> 01:15:06,000
for about four years checking in on them

1910
01:15:09,750 --> 01:15:07,520
every now and then to see if they were

1911
01:15:12,070 --> 01:15:09,760
doing okay

1912
01:15:16,070 --> 01:15:12,080
and no we know in this particular case

1913
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:19,350
no no reoccurrence

1914
01:15:23,590 --> 01:15:20,390
interesting

1915
01:15:25,270 --> 01:15:23,600
and so uh you know you hear of someone

1916
01:15:27,590 --> 01:15:25,280
that doesn't have any

1917
01:15:28,550 --> 01:15:27,600
electricity or running water

1918
01:15:31,030 --> 01:15:28,560
and

1919
01:15:32,550 --> 01:15:31,040
i'm assuming that means no telephone any

1920
01:15:34,790 --> 01:15:32,560
way to communicate

1921
01:15:37,270 --> 01:15:34,800
um you're kind of isolated that's that

1922
01:15:39,830 --> 01:15:37,280
could be a scary situation for most

1923
01:15:43,910 --> 01:15:39,840
people but i imagine um they're just

1924
01:15:49,590 --> 01:15:46,870
oh yeah yeah in fact uh we've gone on

1925
01:15:52,390 --> 01:15:49,600
rescue operations during uh like winter

1926
01:15:54,229 --> 01:15:52,400
snow lifts or mud lifts where people

1927
01:15:55,270 --> 01:15:54,239
can't get out on the roads on the dirt

1928
01:15:56,709 --> 01:15:55,280
roads

1929
01:15:59,510 --> 01:15:56,719
and

1930
01:16:01,270 --> 01:15:59,520
we go in on snowmobiles or on four-wheel

1931
01:16:03,910 --> 01:16:01,280
atvs and stuff

1932
01:16:06,870 --> 01:16:03,920
and or six-wheel uh

1933
01:16:08,149 --> 01:16:06,880
six by six uh truck

1934
01:16:09,270 --> 01:16:08,159
deuce and a half

1935
01:16:11,189 --> 01:16:09,280
and

1936
01:16:13,270 --> 01:16:11,199
meet with the families back there to see

1937
01:16:15,590 --> 01:16:13,280
if you know they need food water

1938
01:16:18,709 --> 01:16:15,600
supplies whatever

1939
01:16:20,390 --> 01:16:18,719
the 20 something year olds are in dire

1940
01:16:22,149 --> 01:16:20,400
need because they can't get out that

1941
01:16:23,030 --> 01:16:22,159
night to get pizza

1942
01:16:27,750 --> 01:16:23,040
uh

1943
01:16:29,590 --> 01:16:27,760
grandma and grandpa

1944
01:16:31,270 --> 01:16:29,600
we ask them do you have enough water and

1945
01:16:33,510 --> 01:16:31,280
they just point to all the snow and they

1946
01:16:34,630 --> 01:16:33,520
say yeah there's plenty of water here

1947
01:16:43,270 --> 01:16:34,640
and

1948
01:16:44,709 --> 01:16:43,280
everything else in there that could last

1949
01:16:46,790 --> 01:16:44,719
them all winter

1950
01:16:48,709 --> 01:16:46,800
they've got a big wood pile

1951
01:16:49,990 --> 01:16:48,719
uh they're they're sad they say we don't

1952
01:16:52,470 --> 01:16:50,000
need any help

1953
01:16:53,910 --> 01:16:52,480
but uh 20-something year olds yeah they

1954
01:16:55,510 --> 01:16:53,920
need help

1955
01:16:57,910 --> 01:16:55,520
yeah that's right if we ever lost our

1956
01:17:00,070 --> 01:16:57,920
power or something those people would

1957
01:17:02,310 --> 01:17:00,080
survive and we wouldn't

1958
01:17:05,350 --> 01:17:02,320
that's how that would go that's right

1959
01:17:08,070 --> 01:17:05,360
yeah yeah interesting um so

1960
01:17:09,510 --> 01:17:08,080
yeah that case is really fascinating and

1961
01:17:10,630 --> 01:17:09,520
and um

1962
01:17:13,110 --> 01:17:10,640
and

1963
01:17:14,870 --> 01:17:13,120
you mentioned that you took some

1964
01:17:17,030 --> 01:17:14,880
equipment out and you checked to see if

1965
01:17:18,229 --> 01:17:17,040
there was any radiation or anything like

1966
01:17:20,870 --> 01:17:18,239
that is that

1967
01:17:23,669 --> 01:17:20,880
typical um do you have that equipment

1968
01:17:25,910 --> 01:17:23,679
for other types of cases or is it just

1969
01:17:29,510 --> 01:17:25,920
for when you're doing these type of uh

1970
01:17:32,310 --> 01:17:29,520
when you were doing these type of cases

1971
01:17:33,910 --> 01:17:32,320
uh mainly for what we call ground

1972
01:17:35,270 --> 01:17:33,920
occupant sightings

1973
01:17:37,510 --> 01:17:35,280
um

1974
01:17:38,790 --> 01:17:37,520
if if we have something that is

1975
01:17:42,070 --> 01:17:38,800
considered

1976
01:17:45,110 --> 01:17:42,080
uh out of the ordinary um

1977
01:17:48,149 --> 01:17:45,120
that might need a closer look at it

1978
01:17:49,030 --> 01:17:48,159
uh will will bring more

1979
01:17:50,630 --> 01:17:49,040
uh

1980
01:17:53,030 --> 01:17:50,640
outside

1981
01:17:55,430 --> 01:17:53,040
uh interest to bear on it

1982
01:17:56,470 --> 01:17:55,440
like the environmental protection agency

1983
01:17:59,590 --> 01:17:56,480
or whatever

1984
01:18:00,950 --> 01:17:59,600
but for normal cases uh we would have

1985
01:18:04,229 --> 01:18:00,960
flybys

1986
01:18:06,709 --> 01:18:04,239
uh which is you know i saw this object

1987
01:18:08,310 --> 01:18:06,719
you know appear here and disappeared

1988
01:18:09,350 --> 01:18:08,320
over there and they're pointing at the

1989
01:18:10,950 --> 01:18:09,360
sky

1990
01:18:17,669 --> 01:18:10,960
uh

1991
01:18:19,990 --> 01:18:17,679
correlate it with other reports

1992
01:18:22,390 --> 01:18:20,000
but uh the chances are is you're not

1993
01:18:23,350 --> 01:18:22,400
going to go any further than that

1994
01:18:25,189 --> 01:18:23,360
right

1995
01:18:27,110 --> 01:18:25,199
yeah yeah

1996
01:18:28,709 --> 01:18:27,120
now you mentioned

1997
01:18:32,229 --> 01:18:28,719
uh the other things that you've

1998
01:18:34,390 --> 01:18:32,239
investigated uh witchcraft which is uh

1999
01:18:36,950 --> 01:18:34,400
fascinating and also

2000
01:18:40,630 --> 01:18:36,960
hauntings i don't know if you if there's

2001
01:18:43,030 --> 01:18:40,640
uh other ufo i mean this show of course

2002
01:18:46,070 --> 01:18:43,040
is about ufos so i'd rather you know

2003
01:18:49,189 --> 01:18:46,080
mostly stick to that topic but um if you

2004
01:18:51,590 --> 01:18:49,199
do you have other ufo uh cases you can

2005
01:18:53,430 --> 01:18:51,600
talk about

2006
01:18:55,750 --> 01:18:53,440
oh sure sure

2007
01:18:57,110 --> 01:18:55,760
um i talked about that case up in the

2008
01:18:58,950 --> 01:18:57,120
ship rock where we were doing the

2009
01:19:00,229 --> 01:18:58,960
bigfoot investigation

2010
01:19:01,590 --> 01:19:00,239
uh

2011
01:19:03,669 --> 01:19:01,600
after that

2012
01:19:07,030 --> 01:19:03,679
we left in the evening

2013
01:19:08,550 --> 01:19:07,040
uh by the time i'm getting home

2014
01:19:10,470 --> 01:19:08,560
it's about

2015
01:19:13,189 --> 01:19:10,480
two o'clock in the morning

2016
01:19:15,030 --> 01:19:13,199
and i'm on the road in my in my vehicle

2017
01:19:15,910 --> 01:19:15,040
and my tribal vehicle

2018
01:19:17,910 --> 01:19:15,920
um

2019
01:19:19,990 --> 01:19:17,920
so it's it's a law enforcement vehicle

2020
01:19:21,669 --> 01:19:20,000
we've got red and blue lights on it and

2021
01:19:23,430 --> 01:19:21,679
all that kind of good stuff

2022
01:19:27,350 --> 01:19:23,440
and

2023
01:19:29,750 --> 01:19:27,360
i'm in a place called uh indian wells

2024
01:19:31,750 --> 01:19:29,760
arizona which is uh

2025
01:19:35,189 --> 01:19:31,760
near delcon

2026
01:19:38,070 --> 01:19:35,199
about 15 miles away from delcon

2027
01:19:40,550 --> 01:19:38,080
and as i'm driving i drive through this

2028
01:19:42,070 --> 01:19:40,560
area on naval route 15 called the sugar

2029
01:19:47,510 --> 01:19:42,080
bowl

2030
01:19:48,229 --> 01:19:47,520
valley where the highway goes down into

2031
01:19:50,790 --> 01:19:48,239
it

2032
01:19:52,310 --> 01:19:50,800
and then you climb up and out the other

2033
01:19:53,590 --> 01:19:52,320
side

2034
01:19:55,510 --> 01:19:53,600
and um

2035
01:19:57,110 --> 01:19:55,520
so the the officers and everybody just

2036
01:19:58,630 --> 01:19:57,120
call it sugar bowl

2037
01:20:00,709 --> 01:19:58,640
and

2038
01:20:03,669 --> 01:20:00,719
as i came out of it

2039
01:20:06,229 --> 01:20:03,679
on the right hand side of the road i see

2040
01:20:07,030 --> 01:20:06,239
what looks like a green ball

2041
01:20:09,110 --> 01:20:07,040
and

2042
01:20:10,950 --> 01:20:09,120
it's lit up pretty brightly

2043
01:20:12,070 --> 01:20:10,960
but i'm thinking it's probably

2044
01:20:13,830 --> 01:20:12,080
somebody's

2045
01:20:16,149 --> 01:20:13,840
street light that you know they have

2046
01:20:18,870 --> 01:20:16,159
near their house

2047
01:20:21,510 --> 01:20:18,880
something like a mercury vapor light

2048
01:20:23,669 --> 01:20:21,520
so i keep driving down the road

2049
01:20:26,070 --> 01:20:23,679
and pretty soon i keep seeing this this

2050
01:20:28,229 --> 01:20:26,080
green ball behind me maybe about a

2051
01:20:31,110 --> 01:20:28,239
couple of hundred yards and then it

2052
01:20:33,510 --> 01:20:31,120
approaches to about a hundred yards

2053
01:20:35,430 --> 01:20:33,520
now i'm watching it pretty intently in

2054
01:20:38,390 --> 01:20:35,440
my rearview mirror

2055
01:20:41,590 --> 01:20:38,400
and uh i'm thinking to myself

2056
01:20:43,910 --> 01:20:41,600
should i turn around and

2057
01:20:45,669 --> 01:20:43,920
head on with it and see what it is

2058
01:20:48,149 --> 01:20:45,679
or should i pull over to the side of the

2059
01:20:50,629 --> 01:20:48,159
road and let it catch up and pass me

2060
01:20:53,669 --> 01:20:50,639
you know and i've just got all these

2061
01:20:54,950 --> 01:20:53,679
thoughts going through my head

2062
01:20:57,430 --> 01:20:54,960
and

2063
01:20:59,590 --> 01:20:57,440
one of the things that

2064
01:21:01,510 --> 01:20:59,600
i don't do is i don't think you know

2065
01:21:03,189 --> 01:21:01,520
should i get out and shoot at it

2066
01:21:04,790 --> 01:21:03,199
because obviously that could be the

2067
01:21:07,350 --> 01:21:04,800
wrong thing to do

2068
01:21:09,510 --> 01:21:07,360
and uh but that's what we do right we we

2069
01:21:11,350 --> 01:21:09,520
poke at things with a stick and

2070
01:21:13,030 --> 01:21:11,360
throw rocks at it

2071
01:21:15,350 --> 01:21:13,040
so

2072
01:21:17,990 --> 01:21:15,360
as i'm as i'm watching this thing it

2073
01:21:19,669 --> 01:21:18,000
veered off the road to the left or to

2074
01:21:22,149 --> 01:21:19,679
the south of the road

2075
01:21:24,870 --> 01:21:22,159
uh just before i get to delecon

2076
01:21:27,189 --> 01:21:24,880
and goes out through where there's no

2077
01:21:28,390 --> 01:21:27,199
dirt roads it's just drifting over the

2078
01:21:30,629 --> 01:21:28,400
grass

2079
01:21:33,430 --> 01:21:30,639
and i can see

2080
01:21:34,629 --> 01:21:33,440
the ground lit up under it

2081
01:21:37,669 --> 01:21:34,639
and

2082
01:21:39,830 --> 01:21:37,679
as i watch it it goes up on top of about

2083
01:21:41,590 --> 01:21:39,840
a mile off the road it goes on top this

2084
01:21:44,390 --> 01:21:41,600
little mesa

2085
01:21:46,149 --> 01:21:44,400
and from there it started to parallel

2086
01:21:48,870 --> 01:21:46,159
my course

2087
01:21:51,669 --> 01:21:48,880
and as it started doing that the light

2088
01:21:54,310 --> 01:21:51,679
turned from green to red

2089
01:21:57,030 --> 01:21:54,320
and now i'm thinking i'm getting this

2090
01:21:59,350 --> 01:21:57,040
weird weird feeling uh and i've never

2091
01:22:02,229 --> 01:21:59,360
had it before or since

2092
01:22:03,590 --> 01:22:02,239
that there's uh there's a malevolent

2093
01:22:07,350 --> 01:22:03,600
intent

2094
01:22:10,229 --> 01:22:07,360
that this thing does not mean me well

2095
01:22:12,870 --> 01:22:10,239
and so now i'm watching it quite a bit

2096
01:22:17,830 --> 01:22:12,880
but i'm still going down the road

2097
01:22:20,629 --> 01:22:17,840
and i went a total of let's see 15

2098
01:22:23,110 --> 01:22:20,639
20 about 25 miles

2099
01:22:25,430 --> 01:22:23,120
total with this thing following me and

2100
01:22:27,350 --> 01:22:25,440
then going along the side of me

2101
01:22:29,830 --> 01:22:27,360
and um

2102
01:22:33,830 --> 01:22:29,840
it just and it stayed on top of the mesa

2103
01:22:36,550 --> 01:22:33,840
tops uh to my left as i'm driving

2104
01:22:38,790 --> 01:22:36,560
and it suddenly just faded out and

2105
01:22:39,910 --> 01:22:38,800
disappeared

2106
01:22:42,950 --> 01:22:39,920
wow

2107
01:22:44,310 --> 01:22:42,960
so that that was a real weird one for me

2108
01:22:46,149 --> 01:22:44,320
i always wonder what would have happened

2109
01:22:48,070 --> 01:22:46,159
if i had turned around and

2110
01:22:49,270 --> 01:22:48,080
and gone head-on with it to see what it

2111
01:22:52,709 --> 01:22:49,280
was

2112
01:22:54,870 --> 01:22:52,719
but very very very interesting wow

2113
01:22:56,149 --> 01:22:54,880
uh i i have something that i'm going to

2114
01:22:57,990 --> 01:22:56,159
share with you that someone out there

2115
01:22:59,590 --> 01:22:58,000
told me a story about but

2116
01:23:02,390 --> 01:22:59,600
you just reminded me when you said about

2117
01:23:05,270 --> 01:23:02,400
the mesa but um someone in chat wanted

2118
01:23:09,110 --> 01:23:05,280
me to ask you about a giant rabbit are

2119
01:23:14,229 --> 01:23:11,750
yeah yeah i do know uh it's it's

2120
01:23:15,030 --> 01:23:14,239
involving another case uh a young lady

2121
01:23:16,229 --> 01:23:15,040
was

2122
01:23:17,510 --> 01:23:16,239
coming

2123
01:23:19,110 --> 01:23:17,520
home

2124
01:23:20,709 --> 01:23:19,120
in the middle of the night she she

2125
01:23:22,390 --> 01:23:20,719
worked late nights

2126
01:23:25,189 --> 01:23:22,400
and

2127
01:23:26,310 --> 01:23:25,199
she has an encounter with uh with a red

2128
01:23:28,629 --> 01:23:26,320
orb

2129
01:23:30,870 --> 01:23:28,639
and as she's going down the road this

2130
01:23:33,750 --> 01:23:30,880
this orb changed from something about

2131
01:23:35,510 --> 01:23:33,760
the size of a say a beach ball

2132
01:23:37,910 --> 01:23:35,520
to something about

2133
01:23:39,990 --> 01:23:37,920
a little bit bigger than a softball

2134
01:23:42,229 --> 01:23:40,000
that's smaller than a volleyball

2135
01:23:44,790 --> 01:23:42,239
and now it's white and it's flying right

2136
01:23:46,870 --> 01:23:44,800
along the left side of her car as she's

2137
01:23:48,470 --> 01:23:46,880
driving down the road

2138
01:23:49,830 --> 01:23:48,480
um

2139
01:23:52,470 --> 01:23:49,840
this thing

2140
01:23:54,310 --> 01:23:52,480
speeds up zips in front of her and then

2141
01:23:57,270 --> 01:23:54,320
makes a right angle turn

2142
01:23:59,590 --> 01:23:57,280
and goes over the horizon uh like a

2143
01:24:02,310 --> 01:23:59,600
shooting star she said she's looking

2144
01:24:03,590 --> 01:24:02,320
over the top of your steering wheel at

2145
01:24:05,430 --> 01:24:03,600
it

2146
01:24:08,470 --> 01:24:05,440
when she gets home

2147
01:24:13,590 --> 01:24:08,480
she pulls into her driveway

2148
01:24:14,950 --> 01:24:13,600
uh on there's a dirt area uh on the side

2149
01:24:18,149 --> 01:24:14,960
uh because there's another vehicle

2150
01:24:18,950 --> 01:24:18,159
parked on the on the concrete driveway

2151
01:24:21,350 --> 01:24:18,960
and

2152
01:24:23,830 --> 01:24:21,360
in front of her is a

2153
01:24:25,430 --> 01:24:23,840
large rabbit she says three and a half

2154
01:24:27,430 --> 01:24:25,440
to four feet tall

2155
01:24:29,189 --> 01:24:27,440
to the top head

2156
01:24:32,390 --> 01:24:29,199
and the ears

2157
01:24:34,790 --> 01:24:32,400
are together and straight back at an

2158
01:24:40,310 --> 01:24:37,990
she says this thing has black eyes

2159
01:24:42,310 --> 01:24:40,320
the fur she knows what a jackrabbit

2160
01:24:44,950 --> 01:24:42,320
looks like and what a cotton tail looks

2161
01:24:46,390 --> 01:24:44,960
like and she says the fur on this is

2162
01:24:47,350 --> 01:24:46,400
speckled

2163
01:24:49,430 --> 01:24:47,360
uh

2164
01:24:51,590 --> 01:24:49,440
almost like a pepper look

2165
01:24:53,430 --> 01:24:51,600
brown and black

2166
01:24:56,310 --> 01:24:53,440
all over

2167
01:24:57,510 --> 01:24:56,320
uh no no marks on it you know defining

2168
01:25:01,669 --> 01:24:57,520
marks

2169
01:25:04,310 --> 01:25:01,679
and she says as she watches it

2170
01:25:06,149 --> 01:25:04,320
it doesn't move it doesn't blink

2171
01:25:08,390 --> 01:25:06,159
and she

2172
01:25:10,310 --> 01:25:08,400
stopped her car

2173
01:25:12,870 --> 01:25:10,320
just short of where she usually parks

2174
01:25:15,270 --> 01:25:12,880
because this thing was in the way

2175
01:25:18,149 --> 01:25:15,280
and she's talking to her she calls her

2176
01:25:19,270 --> 01:25:18,159
brother who's in phoenix on the phone

2177
01:25:21,030 --> 01:25:19,280
and

2178
01:25:22,870 --> 01:25:21,040
uh says okay i'm going to make a run for

2179
01:25:23,590 --> 01:25:22,880
the door if you don't hear from me you

2180
01:25:25,669 --> 01:25:23,600
know

2181
01:25:27,030 --> 01:25:25,679
call somebody else that can come look

2182
01:25:29,430 --> 01:25:27,040
for me

2183
01:25:31,270 --> 01:25:29,440
and she opens the door

2184
01:25:33,270 --> 01:25:31,280
backs out of the car and goes around the

2185
01:25:34,470 --> 01:25:33,280
back of the car heads for the door of

2186
01:25:37,030 --> 01:25:34,480
the house

2187
01:25:39,030 --> 01:25:37,040
gets in locks the door she didn't sleep

2188
01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:39,040
that night obviously

2189
01:25:43,270 --> 01:25:41,520
and the next day she had a migraine

2190
01:25:45,669 --> 01:25:43,280
headache all day and she's never had a

2191
01:25:48,229 --> 01:25:45,679
migraine in her life

2192
01:25:53,830 --> 01:25:51,590
when i did the investigation on it

2193
01:25:55,430 --> 01:25:53,840
we looked at where her vehicle was

2194
01:25:56,790 --> 01:25:55,440
parked

2195
01:25:59,430 --> 01:25:56,800
and

2196
01:26:03,590 --> 01:25:59,440
in front of it the the ground is that

2197
01:26:09,189 --> 01:26:05,990
about three inches or so under his

2198
01:26:11,350 --> 01:26:09,199
limestone base so it's very very hard

2199
01:26:13,430 --> 01:26:11,360
ground you you'd kick it with a boot and

2200
01:26:15,430 --> 01:26:13,440
you couldn't break the soil until you

2201
01:26:16,870 --> 01:26:15,440
kicked it several times

2202
01:26:18,629 --> 01:26:16,880
and uh

2203
01:26:20,390 --> 01:26:18,639
in the evening or late in the evening i

2204
01:26:22,470 --> 01:26:20,400
went back out there with a flashlight

2205
01:26:24,870 --> 01:26:22,480
because you could see disturbance to the

2206
01:26:26,870 --> 01:26:24,880
soil in front of her car

2207
01:26:29,270 --> 01:26:26,880
and i shined a

2208
01:26:31,270 --> 01:26:29,280
put a flashlight on the ground and took

2209
01:26:33,110 --> 01:26:31,280
pictures of it

2210
01:26:35,110 --> 01:26:33,120
and you could see where something had

2211
01:26:38,709 --> 01:26:35,120
been sitting there

2212
01:26:40,950 --> 01:26:38,719
uh so obviously something was was there

2213
01:26:43,110 --> 01:26:40,960
that broke that ground

2214
01:26:45,510 --> 01:26:43,120
and made some marks they were indistinct

2215
01:26:47,189 --> 01:26:45,520
but there there were marks

2216
01:26:51,110 --> 01:26:47,199
um

2217
01:26:52,709 --> 01:26:51,120
i contacted uh mufon and they said pull

2218
01:26:54,229 --> 01:26:52,719
the oil filter

2219
01:26:55,669 --> 01:26:54,239
i was put in

2220
01:26:57,030 --> 01:26:55,679
in touch with

2221
01:26:59,350 --> 01:26:57,040
chuck moldlin

2222
01:27:00,470 --> 01:26:59,360
who is was the star team member at that

2223
01:27:01,910 --> 01:27:00,480
time

2224
01:27:10,310 --> 01:27:01,920
and

2225
01:27:13,750 --> 01:27:10,320
look for magnetic anomalies

2226
01:27:16,950 --> 01:27:13,760
what we found was a magnetic

2227
01:27:18,229 --> 01:27:16,960
area in front of the front door about

2228
01:27:20,070 --> 01:27:18,239
metal

2229
01:27:22,550 --> 01:27:20,080
and

2230
01:27:23,590 --> 01:27:22,560
the other area that where the needle

2231
01:27:26,390 --> 01:27:23,600
pinned

2232
01:27:28,229 --> 01:27:26,400
was just behind the driver's door

2233
01:27:30,709 --> 01:27:28,239
on the side of the vehicle

2234
01:27:33,669 --> 01:27:30,719
if you took a string and

2235
01:27:37,590 --> 01:27:33,679
put a string between those two places

2236
01:27:41,830 --> 01:27:38,870
so

2237
01:27:43,910 --> 01:27:41,840
whatever it was must have

2238
01:27:45,110 --> 01:27:43,920
flashed something at her that that went

2239
01:27:48,550 --> 01:27:45,120
through her

2240
01:27:50,470 --> 01:27:48,560
and created magnetic anomalies on the on

2241
01:27:52,950 --> 01:27:50,480
the surface of the vehicle

2242
01:27:55,830 --> 01:27:52,960
uh shortly after that her alternator

2243
01:27:57,590 --> 01:27:55,840
went out her water pump had gone out

2244
01:28:00,870 --> 01:27:57,600
she ended up getting rid of the car

2245
01:28:03,270 --> 01:28:00,880
because of the electronic problems

2246
01:28:05,110 --> 01:28:03,280
ah how about that i'm going to try and

2247
01:28:07,830 --> 01:28:05,120
experiment i have a

2248
01:28:10,229 --> 01:28:07,840
a phone line here that i have

2249
01:28:11,350 --> 01:28:10,239
i have now for i'm going to put the

2250
01:28:12,550 --> 01:28:11,360
number up

2251
01:28:17,270 --> 01:28:12,560
um

2252
01:28:19,910 --> 01:28:17,280
everything else show uh taking calls

2253
01:28:21,510 --> 01:28:19,920
when i'm not on kgra radio with bill

2254
01:28:22,950 --> 01:28:21,520
helping me out which is a case tonight

2255
01:28:25,510 --> 01:28:22,960
because you're actually on that phone

2256
01:28:26,950 --> 01:28:25,520
line so i have a new number posted it's

2257
01:28:30,149 --> 01:28:26,960
207

2258
01:28:32,870 --> 01:28:31,590
so here's the thing if you're going to

2259
01:28:34,790 --> 01:28:32,880
call in

2260
01:28:35,830 --> 01:28:34,800
i'm going to have to put you on hold and

2261
01:28:37,270 --> 01:28:35,840
then i'm going to put you on

2262
01:28:39,590 --> 01:28:37,280
speakerphone i'm not going to be able to

2263
01:28:42,870 --> 01:28:39,600
screen the call so be nice

2264
01:28:46,990 --> 01:28:42,880
and i will take calls at this point if

2265
01:28:49,590 --> 01:28:47,000
someone wants to call in at 207

2266
01:28:50,709 --> 01:28:49,600
482-056 i actually hope someone calls in

2267
01:28:52,550 --> 01:28:50,719
because i want to

2268
01:28:53,990 --> 01:28:52,560
i haven't been able to test this out

2269
01:28:55,030 --> 01:28:54,000
you're going to be my guinea pig whoever

2270
01:28:57,669 --> 01:28:55,040
calls in

2271
01:28:58,550 --> 01:28:57,679
and the number's up on the screen and so

2272
01:29:00,870 --> 01:28:58,560
that

2273
01:29:01,750 --> 01:29:00,880
line is open and ready for you to call

2274
01:29:03,910 --> 01:29:01,760
in

2275
01:29:05,350 --> 01:29:03,920
and uh so

2276
01:29:08,070 --> 01:29:05,360
this is uh

2277
01:29:10,470 --> 01:29:08,080
that that story is you know the weird

2278
01:29:12,709 --> 01:29:10,480
stories like that

2279
01:29:14,470 --> 01:29:12,719
um i heard greg bishop say this i'm kind

2280
01:29:15,990 --> 01:29:14,480
of parroting what he says but i've i

2281
01:29:18,229 --> 01:29:16,000
kind of agree with him

2282
01:29:19,669 --> 01:29:18,239
that i love the strange stories because

2283
01:29:22,470 --> 01:29:19,679
they seem

2284
01:29:25,430 --> 01:29:22,480
in some way more credible as

2285
01:29:27,590 --> 01:29:25,440
how could you make something up

2286
01:29:29,189 --> 01:29:27,600
like that you know it's such a bizarre

2287
01:29:30,790 --> 01:29:29,199
thing i do want to tell you what i was

2288
01:29:33,830 --> 01:29:30,800
told out there

2289
01:29:36,390 --> 01:29:33,840
um from a woman that uh i was out

2290
01:29:37,669 --> 01:29:36,400
walking my dog at the time

2291
01:29:39,030 --> 01:29:37,679
and

2292
01:29:55,510 --> 01:29:39,040
i

2293
01:29:57,510 --> 01:29:55,520
caller

2294
01:29:59,030 --> 01:29:57,520
so i'm gonna go back into that thought

2295
01:30:00,550 --> 01:29:59,040
because i really have to try this out

2296
01:30:02,709 --> 01:30:00,560
see how it works

2297
01:30:04,470 --> 01:30:02,719
but and i will finish that story in just

2298
01:30:07,030 --> 01:30:04,480
a minute um

2299
01:30:09,350 --> 01:30:07,040
caller you are live on the air right now

2300
01:30:10,550 --> 01:30:09,360
um and just keep in mind you have to

2301
01:30:14,629 --> 01:30:10,560
mute your

2302
01:30:18,310 --> 01:30:16,709
so

2303
01:30:21,590 --> 01:30:18,320
there you are caller your name and where

2304
01:30:26,950 --> 01:30:23,830
i'm right and this is uh bob gross i'm

2305
01:30:29,590 --> 01:30:26,960
calling from the chicago area hi there

2306
01:30:31,350 --> 01:30:29,600
how are you welcome good how are you

2307
01:30:33,510 --> 01:30:31,360
good thanks for being my guinea pig i

2308
01:30:36,229 --> 01:30:33,520
hope the people can hear

2309
01:30:38,390 --> 01:30:36,239
i hope that people can hear on on the uh

2310
01:30:40,870 --> 01:30:38,400
on this show so you have a question for

2311
01:30:42,390 --> 01:30:40,880
our guest tonight

2312
01:30:44,790 --> 01:30:42,400
yes

2313
01:30:47,350 --> 01:30:44,800
as you know i used to live on the navajo

2314
01:30:48,950 --> 01:30:47,360
reservation that's right and i wanted to

2315
01:30:52,629 --> 01:30:48,960
ask him if he

2316
01:30:55,189 --> 01:30:52,639
uh heard any of the stories that uh the

2317
01:30:57,750 --> 01:30:55,199
native americans lived in greecewood

2318
01:31:05,030 --> 01:30:57,760
springs arizona used to tell about the

2319
01:31:10,870 --> 01:31:09,110
yeah about ufo sightings in greecewood

2320
01:31:12,149 --> 01:31:10,880
we have a lot of

2321
01:31:14,550 --> 01:31:12,159
tribal members there and they were

2322
01:31:17,189 --> 01:31:14,560
describing that they were regularly

2323
01:31:19,990 --> 01:31:17,199
seeing these ufos

2324
01:31:22,550 --> 01:31:20,000
in the greasewood springs area

2325
01:31:25,270 --> 01:31:22,560
i don't want to know if you heard

2326
01:31:31,189 --> 01:31:28,390
yeah we investigated a case where we had

2327
01:31:34,310 --> 01:31:31,199
ufos actually flying into

2328
01:31:35,350 --> 01:31:34,320
satan butte which is in that greasewood

2329
01:31:36,390 --> 01:31:35,360
area

2330
01:31:39,430 --> 01:31:36,400
and

2331
01:31:43,270 --> 01:31:39,440
they were actually flying into the butte

2332
01:31:44,470 --> 01:31:43,280
um right we also found out that satan

2333
01:31:47,590 --> 01:31:44,480
butte

2334
01:31:49,830 --> 01:31:47,600
is on the same longitude that skinwalker

2335
01:31:50,790 --> 01:31:49,840
ranch is located at

2336
01:31:52,950 --> 01:31:50,800
so

2337
01:31:56,149 --> 01:31:52,960
we had a lot of the same kind of things

2338
01:32:01,910 --> 01:31:59,110
yes but uh the people the elders from

2339
01:32:04,709 --> 01:32:01,920
the tribe were telling me

2340
01:32:07,270 --> 01:32:04,719
uh that they would it was so regular

2341
01:32:09,350 --> 01:32:07,280
regular that they were taking their lawn

2342
01:32:12,950 --> 01:32:09,360
chairs and they would sit out in their

2343
01:32:16,229 --> 01:32:12,960
lawns and watch the ufos fly in

2344
01:32:24,830 --> 01:32:19,510
uh yeah some of them look like tuna fish

2345
01:32:29,990 --> 01:32:29,110
wow yep yeah uh that whole area there

2346
01:32:32,390 --> 01:32:30,000
um

2347
01:32:33,430 --> 01:32:32,400
from the transwestern station up toward

2348
01:32:37,910 --> 01:32:33,440
uh

2349
01:32:42,310 --> 01:32:37,920
down through greecewood springs down

2350
01:32:44,470 --> 01:32:42,320
toward tanner wash and no water mesa

2351
01:32:46,709 --> 01:32:44,480
we've seen a lot of activity and we've

2352
01:32:50,550 --> 01:32:46,719
seen a lot of military activity

2353
01:32:53,910 --> 01:32:50,560
with helicopter flyovers in that area

2354
01:32:56,229 --> 01:32:53,920
and decided to work with young jeff tom

2355
01:32:58,870 --> 01:32:56,239
and back when joe shirley

2356
01:33:01,110 --> 01:32:58,880
was with the tribe and there were a lot

2357
01:33:02,950 --> 01:33:01,120
of strange things that happened there

2358
01:33:05,669 --> 01:33:02,960
all the time especially with the working

2359
01:33:09,189 --> 01:33:05,679
with the medicine men and borrego pass

2360
01:33:12,629 --> 01:33:09,199
is where i used to live

2361
01:33:16,629 --> 01:33:12,639
okay i'm familiar with that area too

2362
01:33:18,310 --> 01:33:16,639
yeah all all over the whole place

2363
01:33:20,830 --> 01:33:18,320
we actually had a

2364
01:33:23,030 --> 01:33:20,840
a young girl who was visiting her

2365
01:33:25,430 --> 01:33:23,040
grandmother and

2366
01:33:26,310 --> 01:33:25,440
in front of the hogan there's a shadow

2367
01:33:28,550 --> 01:33:26,320
that's

2368
01:33:30,870 --> 01:33:28,560
locked out the light and the young girl

2369
01:33:33,669 --> 01:33:30,880
is looking out and she says grandma

2370
01:33:36,390 --> 01:33:33,679
grandma look look and there was a seven

2371
01:33:38,550 --> 01:33:36,400
or eight foot disc hovering right in

2372
01:33:40,390 --> 01:33:38,560
front of the hogan door

2373
01:33:42,229 --> 01:33:40,400
and the grandmother

2374
01:33:44,390 --> 01:33:42,239
looked at her and she says uh don't

2375
01:33:47,110 --> 01:33:44,400
worry about them she says they're always

2376
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:56,790
interesting

2377
01:34:03,990 --> 01:33:59,669
hi thanks for the call dr bob gross

2378
01:34:06,709 --> 01:34:04,000
thanks for the call take care thank you

2379
01:34:08,950 --> 01:34:06,719
um he was a guest uh previously on the

2380
01:34:10,070 --> 01:34:08,960
on this show um

2381
01:34:12,310 --> 01:34:10,080
well that's

2382
01:34:14,229 --> 01:34:12,320
the the as i was continuing this so i

2383
01:34:16,629 --> 01:34:14,239
met this this girl that when i was

2384
01:34:19,669 --> 01:34:16,639
walking my dog she worked at the casino

2385
01:34:22,709 --> 01:34:19,679
and she said so what's going on uh next

2386
01:34:24,229 --> 01:34:22,719
door and i said well it's a ufo

2387
01:34:26,550 --> 01:34:24,239
um you know it's basically a ufo

2388
01:34:29,350 --> 01:34:26,560
convention the international

2389
01:34:31,189 --> 01:34:29,360
ufo congress and she said oh well i

2390
01:34:33,350 --> 01:34:31,199
should check that out because you know i

2391
01:34:35,750 --> 01:34:33,360
i i had a ufo sighting

2392
01:34:38,070 --> 01:34:35,760
and so i asked her i said well you know

2393
01:34:40,149 --> 01:34:38,080
i always love when this happens because

2394
01:34:41,590 --> 01:34:40,159
you hear a fresh story that you've never

2395
01:34:44,070 --> 01:34:41,600
heard before

2396
01:34:45,430 --> 01:34:44,080
and she said that she was driving along

2397
01:34:47,910 --> 01:34:45,440
with her friend

2398
01:34:50,310 --> 01:34:47,920
um through um

2399
01:34:53,189 --> 01:34:50,320
you know in that area but she said

2400
01:34:56,149 --> 01:34:53,199
something they saw something black um

2401
01:34:57,990 --> 01:34:56,159
off the coming off the top of a mesa

2402
01:35:01,350 --> 01:34:58,000
and heading over toward their car and it

2403
01:35:03,830 --> 01:35:01,360
was something really big and it followed

2404
01:35:06,550 --> 01:35:03,840
them they she closed she got scared

2405
01:35:09,270 --> 01:35:06,560
close the sunroof wouldn't look up and

2406
01:35:10,870 --> 01:35:09,280
so her friend hit the gas and they were

2407
01:35:12,870 --> 01:35:10,880
doing you know

2408
01:35:16,229 --> 01:35:12,880
about 100 miles an hour or so for many

2409
01:35:16,950 --> 01:35:16,239
many miles and then she said well the

2410
01:35:18,709 --> 01:35:16,960
that

2411
01:35:20,870 --> 01:35:18,719
i guess we got away from it she said but

2412
01:35:23,030 --> 01:35:20,880
the strangest thing happened she said

2413
01:35:25,350 --> 01:35:23,040
the biggest owl i've ever seen or ever

2414
01:35:26,950 --> 01:35:25,360
could believe in my life all of a sudden

2415
01:35:28,709 --> 01:35:26,960
was right there in front of the car we

2416
01:35:30,390 --> 01:35:28,719
almost hit it

2417
01:35:31,669 --> 01:35:30,400
and it's kind of like a bizarre story

2418
01:35:33,350 --> 01:35:31,679
like

2419
01:35:34,709 --> 01:35:33,360
you know

2420
01:35:37,750 --> 01:35:34,719
well we

2421
01:35:38,790 --> 01:35:37,760
uh we're told by ufo investigators with

2422
01:35:40,790 --> 01:35:38,800
mufon

2423
01:35:44,629 --> 01:35:40,800
that these could be

2424
01:35:46,790 --> 01:35:44,639
what they call screenshot memories yeah

2425
01:35:47,590 --> 01:35:46,800
yeah of aliens

2426
01:35:49,189 --> 01:35:47,600
being

2427
01:35:53,109 --> 01:35:49,199
revealed to us

2428
01:35:56,629 --> 01:35:53,119
uh they actually manipulate our minds

2429
01:35:57,510 --> 01:35:56,639
to think of other things like a deer an

2430
01:35:58,550 --> 01:35:57,520
owl

2431
01:36:00,070 --> 01:35:58,560
yeah

2432
01:36:01,910 --> 01:36:00,080
a butterfly

2433
01:36:02,790 --> 01:36:01,920
uh something

2434
01:36:05,510 --> 01:36:02,800
that

2435
01:36:08,149 --> 01:36:05,520
would not normally hurt us

2436
01:36:10,390 --> 01:36:08,159
so we're not gonna be fearful of it but

2437
01:36:12,390 --> 01:36:10,400
the proportions are wrong

2438
01:36:13,510 --> 01:36:12,400
huh yeah isn't that something i mean

2439
01:36:19,270 --> 01:36:13,520
that really is

2440
01:36:21,350 --> 01:36:19,280
thought and to this can you explain to

2441
01:36:22,229 --> 01:36:21,360
um i've heard it talked about before and

2442
01:36:25,910 --> 01:36:22,239
i read

2443
01:36:27,590 --> 01:36:25,920
the book um that uh george knapp or

2444
01:36:29,750 --> 01:36:27,600
first wrote not his latest one but the

2445
01:36:32,149 --> 01:36:29,760
first one in the skinwalker ranch but

2446
01:36:36,390 --> 01:36:32,159
what is what is the tradition of what a

2447
01:36:44,310 --> 01:36:39,669
a skinwalker is a person

2448
01:36:47,750 --> 01:36:44,320
um who chooses to learn how to do this

2449
01:36:50,470 --> 01:36:47,760
um there are groups of people

2450
01:36:53,189 --> 01:36:50,480
that have been taught this stuff

2451
01:36:55,270 --> 01:36:53,199
from medicine men uh my i had a

2452
01:36:57,910 --> 01:36:55,280
grandfather that was trained to be a

2453
01:36:59,750 --> 01:36:57,920
medicine man from a very young uh maybe

2454
01:37:02,229 --> 01:36:59,760
eight or ten years old

2455
01:37:05,109 --> 01:37:02,239
and um he became a christian and later

2456
01:37:08,229 --> 01:37:05,119
on became a pastor of a church

2457
01:37:10,070 --> 01:37:08,239
and his testimony was about you know the

2458
01:37:12,229 --> 01:37:10,080
things that uh

2459
01:37:13,510 --> 01:37:12,239
you know that he turned down being a

2460
01:37:15,030 --> 01:37:13,520
medicine man

2461
01:37:16,470 --> 01:37:15,040
um

2462
01:37:17,430 --> 01:37:16,480
he told me

2463
01:37:19,430 --> 01:37:17,440
that

2464
01:37:21,669 --> 01:37:19,440
when you're a medicine man you're taught

2465
01:37:22,629 --> 01:37:21,679
all of these things including the black

2466
01:37:25,030 --> 01:37:22,639
arts

2467
01:37:26,310 --> 01:37:25,040
because you have to know how to heal

2468
01:37:28,870 --> 01:37:26,320
people

2469
01:37:32,870 --> 01:37:28,880
that have been cursed and you have to

2470
01:37:35,189 --> 01:37:32,880
know how the uh the curses are are done

2471
01:37:36,950 --> 01:37:35,199
in order to help them

2472
01:37:39,669 --> 01:37:36,960
so it's up to you to have social

2473
01:37:41,430 --> 01:37:39,679
responsibility about using that kind of

2474
01:37:43,750 --> 01:37:41,440
knowledge

2475
01:37:46,950 --> 01:37:43,760
likewise there are others

2476
01:37:49,590 --> 01:37:46,960
that practice witchcraft that don't know

2477
01:37:51,510 --> 01:37:49,600
anything about the medicine men but they

2478
01:37:52,950 --> 01:37:51,520
know how to make poisons and they know

2479
01:37:55,270 --> 01:37:52,960
how to change

2480
01:37:56,550 --> 01:37:55,280
and they're they're uh they're shape

2481
01:37:59,270 --> 01:37:56,560
shifters

2482
01:38:02,070 --> 01:37:59,280
uh they can shift shape-shift into

2483
01:38:03,990 --> 01:38:02,080
anything that they have the dna

2484
01:38:06,550 --> 01:38:04,000
in their possession of

2485
01:38:07,990 --> 01:38:06,560
which includes you and me

2486
01:38:10,070 --> 01:38:08,000
so

2487
01:38:11,910 --> 01:38:10,080
navajo children are taught from a very

2488
01:38:13,830 --> 01:38:11,920
young age you don't leave your

2489
01:38:16,390 --> 01:38:13,840
fingernail clippings laying around you

2490
01:38:18,470 --> 01:38:16,400
don't leave your hair laying around

2491
01:38:21,430 --> 01:38:18,480
you know like you take it out of the

2492
01:38:23,430 --> 01:38:21,440
brush dispose of it

2493
01:38:25,590 --> 01:38:23,440
don't leave your

2494
01:38:28,629 --> 01:38:25,600
your

2495
01:38:31,270 --> 01:38:28,639
any bodily fluids or anything

2496
01:38:32,470 --> 01:38:31,280
where somebody else can get a hold of it

2497
01:38:33,750 --> 01:38:32,480
so

2498
01:38:34,709 --> 01:38:33,760
that's what you're taught when you're

2499
01:38:35,750 --> 01:38:34,719
small

2500
01:38:38,390 --> 01:38:35,760
and you

2501
01:38:40,629 --> 01:38:38,400
take that into your adult life because

2502
01:38:41,669 --> 01:38:40,639
of the witchcraft they can take that

2503
01:38:43,510 --> 01:38:41,679
stuff

2504
01:38:45,510 --> 01:38:43,520
and mimic you

2505
01:38:46,790 --> 01:38:45,520
and get close to somebody you know to

2506
01:38:48,470 --> 01:38:46,800
poison them

2507
01:38:51,109 --> 01:38:48,480
or to harm them

2508
01:38:55,109 --> 01:38:52,790
and they can

2509
01:38:56,830 --> 01:38:55,119
they can change shape into animals into

2510
01:38:58,550 --> 01:38:56,840
birds

2511
01:39:01,510 --> 01:38:58,560
um

2512
01:39:02,950 --> 01:39:01,520
and it there it's mainly used for evil

2513
01:39:05,830 --> 01:39:02,960
purposes

2514
01:39:07,910 --> 01:39:05,840
uh to become one you have to know

2515
01:39:11,189 --> 01:39:07,920
somebody that can teach you

2516
01:39:12,550 --> 01:39:11,199
and you have to kill somebody who's very

2517
01:39:13,430 --> 01:39:12,560
dear to you

2518
01:39:14,390 --> 01:39:13,440
oh

2519
01:39:15,910 --> 01:39:14,400
wow

2520
01:39:17,510 --> 01:39:15,920
and that's not a club i want to be part

2521
01:39:19,189 --> 01:39:17,520
of initiation

2522
01:39:21,510 --> 01:39:19,199
yeah right

2523
01:39:23,910 --> 01:39:21,520
so i wonder you know for instance they

2524
01:39:25,990 --> 01:39:23,920
talk about skinwalker ranch what why did

2525
01:39:29,350 --> 01:39:26,000
that do you have any idea at all why

2526
01:39:33,750 --> 01:39:30,709
yeah i do

2527
01:39:35,910 --> 01:39:33,760
the the you into basin up there

2528
01:39:37,510 --> 01:39:35,920
um it's said

2529
01:39:38,950 --> 01:39:37,520
that uh and

2530
01:39:41,669 --> 01:39:38,960
and um

2531
01:39:44,390 --> 01:39:41,679
i had my own opinion about this but in

2532
01:39:46,390 --> 01:39:44,400
historically it said that the utes

2533
01:39:48,310 --> 01:39:46,400
uh when

2534
01:39:51,189 --> 01:39:48,320
uh kit carson

2535
01:39:54,629 --> 01:39:51,199
and the cavalry came to the reservation

2536
01:39:56,790 --> 01:39:54,639
to round up the navajos it wasn't like a

2537
01:39:58,790 --> 01:39:56,800
cattle around it where you just corral

2538
01:39:59,590 --> 01:39:58,800
everybody and round them up and push

2539
01:40:01,750 --> 01:39:59,600
them

2540
01:40:04,310 --> 01:40:01,760
uh this was war

2541
01:40:06,550 --> 01:40:04,320
and this was war on the scale of

2542
01:40:10,070 --> 01:40:06,560
sherman's march to the sea

2543
01:40:13,030 --> 01:40:10,080
where uh fields were pulled up salted

2544
01:40:15,830 --> 01:40:13,040
uh homes were burned to the ground

2545
01:40:17,990 --> 01:40:15,840
everything was destroyed

2546
01:40:20,310 --> 01:40:18,000
in order to round up the navajos and a

2547
01:40:23,109 --> 01:40:20,320
lot of navajos died

2548
01:40:25,830 --> 01:40:23,119
when they're rounded up uh their march

2549
01:40:27,109 --> 01:40:25,840
force marched to bosque redondo

2550
01:40:29,910 --> 01:40:27,119
uh

2551
01:40:32,149 --> 01:40:29,920
in new mexico a distance of some 300

2552
01:40:32,950 --> 01:40:32,159
miles

2553
01:40:35,590 --> 01:40:32,960
and

2554
01:40:38,709 --> 01:40:35,600
if you fell out you were killed

2555
01:40:39,669 --> 01:40:38,719
so a lot of navajos died on the way over

2556
01:40:42,709 --> 01:40:39,679
there

2557
01:40:44,550 --> 01:40:42,719
and this is 1864.

2558
01:40:47,430 --> 01:40:44,560
so

2559
01:40:50,870 --> 01:40:47,440
because the utes had provided military

2560
01:40:54,629 --> 01:40:50,880
scouts for the cavalry troops it said

2561
01:40:55,830 --> 01:40:54,639
that upon return in 1868

2562
01:40:58,870 --> 01:40:55,840
that the

2563
01:41:01,189 --> 01:40:58,880
a lot of the navajo medicine men cursed

2564
01:41:02,070 --> 01:41:01,199
the ute land up there

2565
01:41:04,550 --> 01:41:02,080
uh

2566
01:41:06,310 --> 01:41:04,560
with skinwalkers

2567
01:41:09,430 --> 01:41:06,320
now

2568
01:41:10,629 --> 01:41:09,440
it sounds like a rather interesting

2569
01:41:13,030 --> 01:41:10,639
story

2570
01:41:14,310 --> 01:41:13,040
however in looking at the petroglyphs up

2571
01:41:15,270 --> 01:41:14,320
there

2572
01:41:18,950 --> 01:41:15,280
uh

2573
01:41:22,390 --> 01:41:18,960
in that area and on skinwalker ranch i

2574
01:41:24,550 --> 01:41:22,400
believe in my it's my opinion

2575
01:41:25,430 --> 01:41:24,560
based on evidence that i see

2576
01:41:27,990 --> 01:41:25,440
that

2577
01:41:29,270 --> 01:41:28,000
these things were going on long before

2578
01:41:30,950 --> 01:41:29,280
that time

2579
01:41:33,270 --> 01:41:30,960
uh and that's

2580
01:41:35,990 --> 01:41:33,280
700 900 years ago

2581
01:41:37,510 --> 01:41:36,000
that they were seeing high strangeness

2582
01:41:45,830 --> 01:41:37,520
in that area

2583
01:41:49,030 --> 01:41:45,840
were doing offerings and prayers

2584
01:41:51,189 --> 01:41:49,040
at these locations to stem off the evil

2585
01:41:53,510 --> 01:41:51,199
in that area

2586
01:41:56,950 --> 01:41:53,520
so i think it's always been there

2587
01:41:59,350 --> 01:41:56,960
yeah yeah uh that that's i've always you

2588
01:42:01,750 --> 01:41:59,360
know wondered why certain things

2589
01:42:04,950 --> 01:42:01,760
seem to happen you know in certain areas

2590
01:42:07,669 --> 01:42:04,960
but it's it seems to me that there

2591
01:42:09,109 --> 01:42:07,679
the area that you have been involved in

2592
01:42:11,750 --> 01:42:09,119
seems like there's a heck of a lot of

2593
01:42:15,030 --> 01:42:11,760
activity going on there

2594
01:42:16,149 --> 01:42:15,040
besides ufos i heard you say the word

2595
01:42:18,470 --> 01:42:16,159
haunting

2596
01:42:22,149 --> 01:42:18,480
um so what what has happened in that

2597
01:42:28,709 --> 01:42:25,030
well um i can give you a very recent

2598
01:42:30,950 --> 01:42:28,719
case that that was actually um

2599
01:42:35,109 --> 01:42:30,960
told to me just just like a couple of

2600
01:42:37,750 --> 01:42:35,119
weeks ago sure and um this involves uh

2601
01:42:40,149 --> 01:42:37,760
in in window rock window rock is the

2602
01:42:42,709 --> 01:42:40,159
capital of the navajo nation

2603
01:42:46,709 --> 01:42:42,719
and so there's a lot of buildings there

2604
01:42:49,590 --> 01:42:46,719
from the uh 1930s 1920s

2605
01:42:51,510 --> 01:42:49,600
um that were built out of stone

2606
01:42:53,669 --> 01:42:51,520
and not only that but along

2607
01:42:56,470 --> 01:42:53,679
from say benito window rock all the way

2608
01:42:59,350 --> 01:42:56,480
to fort defiance was where the navajos

2609
01:43:01,910 --> 01:42:59,360
were held by the military before the

2610
01:43:04,709 --> 01:43:01,920
march to bosque redondo

2611
01:43:07,990 --> 01:43:04,719
so a lot of people died there

2612
01:43:11,510 --> 01:43:10,470
at an office there i won't say which

2613
01:43:13,430 --> 01:43:11,520
office

2614
01:43:15,669 --> 01:43:13,440
uh some uh

2615
01:43:16,629 --> 01:43:15,679
housekeeping people were coming in at

2616
01:43:18,229 --> 01:43:16,639
night

2617
01:43:19,270 --> 01:43:18,239
to clean

2618
01:43:23,030 --> 01:43:19,280
and

2619
01:43:25,990 --> 01:43:23,040
walked down the hallway to the end

2620
01:43:27,669 --> 01:43:26,000
office and as they opened the door

2621
01:43:29,189 --> 01:43:27,679
the the girl

2622
01:43:32,149 --> 01:43:29,199
saw

2623
01:43:33,990 --> 01:43:32,159
a tall dark figure

2624
01:43:36,629 --> 01:43:34,000
standing there

2625
01:43:38,870 --> 01:43:36,639
in the corner of the room

2626
01:43:41,510 --> 01:43:38,880
and that figure

2627
01:43:45,109 --> 01:43:41,520
as it looked at her put its finger up to

2628
01:43:47,990 --> 01:43:45,119
its lips to say be quiet

2629
01:43:49,750 --> 01:43:48,000
she in turn turned around and ran down

2630
01:43:51,590 --> 01:43:49,760
the hallway she had turned on the lights

2631
01:43:55,669 --> 01:43:51,600
there but she says this things still

2632
01:43:59,430 --> 01:43:57,590
she runs down and gets the other two

2633
01:44:02,149 --> 01:43:59,440
housekeeping staff

2634
01:44:03,270 --> 01:44:02,159
they all go back there

2635
01:44:13,669 --> 01:44:03,280
and

2636
01:44:15,189 --> 01:44:13,679
ducked into the room turned out the

2637
01:44:17,270 --> 01:44:15,199
lights and they all ran back down the

2638
01:44:19,590 --> 01:44:17,280
hallway and from then on they wouldn't

2639
01:44:21,189 --> 01:44:19,600
clean that building until uh while it

2640
01:44:23,030 --> 01:44:21,199
was dark

2641
01:44:24,149 --> 01:44:23,040
they would only go there when it was

2642
01:44:27,109 --> 01:44:24,159
light

2643
01:44:29,189 --> 01:44:27,119
can't says i blame them

2644
01:44:31,430 --> 01:44:29,199
yeah wow yeah well that was just that

2645
01:44:34,870 --> 01:44:31,440
was just recently like that

2646
01:44:37,189 --> 01:44:34,880
yeah that was just recently yes yeah and

2647
01:44:38,950 --> 01:44:37,199
when you when you say the the

2648
01:44:40,709 --> 01:44:38,960
the witchcraft is that what you were

2649
01:44:41,510 --> 01:44:40,719
talking about like

2650
01:44:43,510 --> 01:44:41,520
the

2651
01:44:44,550 --> 01:44:43,520
traditions of you know you don't leave

2652
01:44:45,590 --> 01:44:44,560
any

2653
01:44:48,470 --> 01:44:45,600
well

2654
01:44:50,629 --> 01:44:48,480
you know anything dna around

2655
01:44:53,030 --> 01:44:50,639
is that is that mostly that or is that

2656
01:44:55,430 --> 01:44:53,040
did you have you had to investigate

2657
01:44:57,910 --> 01:44:55,440
you know uh happenings that involved

2658
01:45:05,030 --> 01:45:01,270
well uh we did one case where

2659
01:45:06,390 --> 01:45:05,040
a family came to us and they said that

2660
01:45:08,709 --> 01:45:06,400
they had come home and there was a

2661
01:45:10,149 --> 01:45:08,719
coyote trying to get into the

2662
01:45:12,550 --> 01:45:10,159
sheep pen

2663
01:45:14,229 --> 01:45:12,560
and uh so that everybody out there

2664
01:45:17,030 --> 01:45:14,239
carries 22.

2665
01:45:18,870 --> 01:45:17,040
so the the man and his wife you know are

2666
01:45:22,229 --> 01:45:18,880
coming home they see this

2667
01:45:24,070 --> 01:45:22,239
man jumps out grabs his rifle and bang

2668
01:45:25,270 --> 01:45:24,080
shoots the coyote

2669
01:45:27,669 --> 01:45:25,280
in the side

2670
01:45:30,870 --> 01:45:27,679
hit it back back in the hips

2671
01:45:33,430 --> 01:45:30,880
and the coyote went down and started

2672
01:45:35,350 --> 01:45:33,440
dragging itself with his front feet into

2673
01:45:36,950 --> 01:45:35,360
the tumbleweeds

2674
01:45:39,750 --> 01:45:36,960
and

2675
01:45:42,310 --> 01:45:39,760
he went up there this is in late in the

2676
01:45:44,790 --> 01:45:42,320
evening he went up there and and holding

2677
01:45:46,310 --> 01:45:44,800
the rifle in his right hand reach down

2678
01:45:49,109 --> 01:45:46,320
with his left hand

2679
01:45:51,030 --> 01:45:49,119
grabs the hind leg and drags it out and

2680
01:45:52,870 --> 01:45:51,040
he's walking with it

2681
01:45:54,790 --> 01:45:52,880
to drag it out into the open so he can

2682
01:45:57,510 --> 01:45:54,800
shoot it again

2683
01:45:58,870 --> 01:45:57,520
as he was dragging it out he says that

2684
01:46:04,470 --> 01:45:58,880
this

2685
01:46:07,510 --> 01:46:04,480
in his hand

2686
01:46:10,310 --> 01:46:07,520
and he looked down and there was a

2687
01:46:15,030 --> 01:46:12,950
if you were to take a sponge and dip it

2688
01:46:17,910 --> 01:46:15,040
in white paint and blotch it all over

2689
01:46:21,510 --> 01:46:19,669
and then the paint dried and started

2690
01:46:22,870 --> 01:46:21,520
cracking that's what this guy looked

2691
01:46:26,470 --> 01:46:22,880
like

2692
01:46:29,030 --> 01:46:26,480
and he says even his hair was painted he

2693
01:46:31,109 --> 01:46:29,040
had blotch watch paint on it

2694
01:46:33,990 --> 01:46:31,119
and he was in a loincloth

2695
01:46:35,910 --> 01:46:34,000
and he says that he dropped the leg and

2696
01:46:38,390 --> 01:46:35,920
he looked at this thing

2697
01:46:41,350 --> 01:46:38,400
and his wife says you know what do we do

2698
01:46:43,189 --> 01:46:41,360
now you know you already shot it do we

2699
01:46:46,229 --> 01:46:43,199
do we kill it you know because they knew

2700
01:46:48,790 --> 01:46:46,239
what it was it was a skinwalker

2701
01:46:53,430 --> 01:46:51,270
he said or do we call an ambulance

2702
01:46:55,109 --> 01:46:53,440
so they ended up calling an ambulance

2703
01:46:57,270 --> 01:46:55,119
and they called the police

2704
01:46:59,430 --> 01:46:57,280
the police showed up at their residence

2705
01:47:02,149 --> 01:46:59,440
and the naval officers didn't want

2706
01:47:04,550 --> 01:47:02,159
anything to do with this thing

2707
01:47:06,790 --> 01:47:04,560
the ambulance showed up and it's it's a

2708
01:47:08,629 --> 01:47:06,800
navajo ambulance

2709
01:47:10,310 --> 01:47:08,639
and the crew looked at it and you could

2710
01:47:12,550 --> 01:47:10,320
tell that i guess

2711
01:47:14,390 --> 01:47:12,560
they were fearful of it too but they put

2712
01:47:17,030 --> 01:47:14,400
it on the gurney strapped it on and they

2713
01:47:19,430 --> 01:47:17,040
took it into the hospital

2714
01:47:22,390 --> 01:47:19,440
uh at the local hospital

2715
01:47:25,189 --> 01:47:22,400
the anglo doctors chased all the navajo

2716
01:47:28,709 --> 01:47:25,199
staff out of the emergency room

2717
01:47:31,350 --> 01:47:28,719
and did emergency surgery on this guy

2718
01:47:33,590 --> 01:47:31,360
and they saved him

2719
01:47:34,709 --> 01:47:33,600
so the family was asking us what do we

2720
01:47:37,350 --> 01:47:34,719
do now

2721
01:47:38,390 --> 01:47:37,360
you know it's gonna come back and get

2722
01:47:41,030 --> 01:47:38,400
revenge

2723
01:47:43,030 --> 01:47:41,040
and they were very fearful

2724
01:47:44,550 --> 01:47:43,040
and uh then they just happened to

2725
01:47:47,270 --> 01:47:44,560
mention

2726
01:47:50,070 --> 01:47:47,280
that oh and by the way we know who this

2727
01:47:53,189 --> 01:47:50,080
guy is he's he lives in as our our

2728
01:47:56,629 --> 01:47:55,189
and uh we're

2729
01:47:59,030 --> 01:47:56,639
we're able to tell them according to

2730
01:48:01,590 --> 01:47:59,040
navajo tradition that if you

2731
01:48:02,709 --> 01:48:01,600
know the identity of one of these things

2732
01:48:04,390 --> 01:48:02,719
um

2733
01:48:05,990 --> 01:48:04,400
you can go up there knock on their door

2734
01:48:06,709 --> 01:48:06,000
and tell them i know who and what you

2735
01:48:09,350 --> 01:48:06,719
are

2736
01:48:12,550 --> 01:48:09,360
and within three days in a traditional

2737
01:48:14,629 --> 01:48:12,560
sense they will die suddenly

2738
01:48:16,950 --> 01:48:14,639
and i've actually seen that that happen

2739
01:48:20,149 --> 01:48:16,960
with some some of these things

2740
01:48:24,149 --> 01:48:22,550
the emily said okay you know they they

2741
01:48:26,470 --> 01:48:24,159
went away feeling

2742
01:48:28,390 --> 01:48:26,480
feeling like they had an ace in their

2743
01:48:30,950 --> 01:48:28,400
sleeve now and they didn't they weren't

2744
01:48:33,430 --> 01:48:30,960
fearful anymore

2745
01:48:36,470 --> 01:48:33,440
oh geez

2746
01:48:38,550 --> 01:48:36,480
that's one crazy story i'll tell you

2747
01:48:40,950 --> 01:48:38,560
that's really something and stan

2748
01:48:42,790 --> 01:48:40,960
actually uh knew

2749
01:48:45,350 --> 01:48:42,800
some people that worked at the hospital

2750
01:48:48,070 --> 01:48:45,360
and they verified that that incident did

2751
01:48:51,510 --> 01:48:49,590
wow

2752
01:48:54,950 --> 01:48:51,520
that's really something well you know we

2753
01:48:56,629 --> 01:48:54,960
have about three minutes uh left here

2754
01:48:58,149 --> 01:48:56,639
and we have to we have to stop right at

2755
01:49:01,430 --> 01:48:58,159
the um

2756
01:49:02,870 --> 01:49:01,440
at that time but um so

2757
01:49:04,229 --> 01:49:02,880
as far as

2758
01:49:06,950 --> 01:49:04,239
you know what you're doing now you're

2759
01:49:08,790 --> 01:49:06,960
basically retired are you still looking

2760
01:49:10,390 --> 01:49:08,800
into these type of things in any type of

2761
01:49:15,109 --> 01:49:10,400
way at all as

2762
01:49:17,750 --> 01:49:15,119
or or assisting stan in any type of way

2763
01:49:20,470 --> 01:49:17,760
uh stan is no longer with the rangers he

2764
01:49:22,629 --> 01:49:20,480
has moved back in the world he is he is

2765
01:49:24,149 --> 01:49:22,639
now working for the office of the chief

2766
01:49:26,629 --> 01:49:24,159
prosecutor

2767
01:49:28,790 --> 01:49:26,639
as a senior investigator doing

2768
01:49:31,510 --> 01:49:28,800
white-collar crime

2769
01:49:32,790 --> 01:49:31,520
and so he's got a plateful with some new

2770
01:49:34,470 --> 01:49:32,800
cases

2771
01:49:37,030 --> 01:49:34,480
um

2772
01:49:39,270 --> 01:49:37,040
but he's getting paid a little more so

2773
01:49:40,310 --> 01:49:39,280
that's good for him for for retirement

2774
01:49:41,189 --> 01:49:40,320
purposes

2775
01:49:44,790 --> 01:49:41,199
right

2776
01:49:46,870 --> 01:49:44,800
me i just retired from the uh from a

2777
01:49:48,229 --> 01:49:46,880
medical uh manufacturing company in

2778
01:49:50,229 --> 01:49:48,239
flagstaff

2779
01:49:54,229 --> 01:49:50,239
and uh

2780
01:49:56,629 --> 01:49:54,239
so i'm i call myself retired retired

2781
01:49:59,030 --> 01:49:56,639
and i'm getting ready to to look into

2782
01:50:00,790 --> 01:49:59,040
drawing my social security

2783
01:50:01,669 --> 01:50:00,800
so uh yeah

2784
01:50:04,629 --> 01:50:01,679
yeah

2785
01:50:07,430 --> 01:50:04,639
now when you uh so if you're about that

2786
01:50:10,310 --> 01:50:07,440
age then you did you ever hear about

2787
01:50:11,910 --> 01:50:10,320
the socorro incident when that happened

2788
01:50:13,669 --> 01:50:11,920
or were you too young

2789
01:50:15,589 --> 01:50:13,679
yeah

2790
01:50:18,629 --> 01:50:15,599
no i i heard about it because i read

2791
01:50:21,830 --> 01:50:18,639
about it in in books at that time

2792
01:50:22,950 --> 01:50:21,840
uh the lonnie zamora incident right and

2793
01:50:25,510 --> 01:50:22,960
um

2794
01:50:29,189 --> 01:50:25,520
so i am familiar with it

2795
01:50:30,629 --> 01:50:29,199
yeah so that was i think 1966 i believe

2796
01:50:31,430 --> 01:50:30,639
right

2797
01:50:32,229 --> 01:50:31,440
yes

2798
01:50:33,669 --> 01:50:32,239
yeah

2799
01:50:35,910 --> 01:50:33,679
um

2800
01:50:38,229 --> 01:50:35,920
yeah i actually when when we got into

2801
01:50:39,109 --> 01:50:38,239
this type of work i had to do a lot of

2802
01:50:39,830 --> 01:50:39,119
reading

2803
01:50:46,709 --> 01:50:39,840
to

2804
01:50:48,629 --> 01:50:46,719
that could

2805
01:50:50,390 --> 01:50:48,639
steer me in the right direction

2806
01:50:53,270 --> 01:50:50,400
on investigations

2807
01:50:54,070 --> 01:50:53,280
so uh yeah i did a lot of reading

2808
01:51:00,790 --> 01:50:54,080
yeah

2809
01:51:05,510 --> 01:51:03,669
i appreciate all your your time and

2810
01:51:08,229 --> 01:51:05,520
very very interesting stories thank you

2811
01:51:11,189 --> 01:51:10,310
okay and thank you everybody for

2812
01:51:13,270 --> 01:51:11,199
listening

2813
01:51:14,709 --> 01:51:13,280
and i also want to thank you too for

2814
01:51:16,229 --> 01:51:14,719
driving all the way over to where you

2815
01:51:18,550 --> 01:51:16,239
are so you had a better signal that

2816
01:51:21,109 --> 01:51:18,560
really uh was very thoughtful of you

2817
01:51:22,149 --> 01:51:21,119
take care now

2818
01:51:24,149 --> 01:51:22,159
okay

2819
01:51:25,669 --> 01:51:24,159
merry christmas yeah

2820
01:51:27,350 --> 01:51:25,679
all right everyone so that's it for the

2821
01:51:31,270 --> 01:51:27,360
show tonight thank you so much we'll be

2822
01:51:32,870 --> 01:51:31,280
back with graham randell next week and

2823
01:51:34,550 --> 01:51:32,880
for those again that are celebrating

2824
01:51:36,470 --> 01:51:34,560
christmas have a wonderful one and

2825
01:51:39,080 --> 01:51:36,480
remember to keep your eyes to the sky

2826
01:51:50,320 --> 01:51:39,090
you might even see santa